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[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Thanks for posting the citation from Wiktionary, Dennis. I thought it
was helpful. There are so many sources of information that it is easy
to overlook pertinent citations.

Also, thanks to JL for raising this topic and Ben for pointing to
Jesse's book. The greatest thanks goes to Jesse for his extensive and
spectacular research.

Garson

On Mon, Nov 17, 2025 at 11:39 AM Dennis During
<00001bcaf94bd005-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> Citations appearing in Wiktionary are unlikely to be the earliest citations
> of the existence of an expression. Each one ought to unambiguously support
> some or all of the definition under which it appears. In addition many
> citations that are helpful in specifying the meaning of a term are
> disqualified because they are considered mentions rather than uses. This is
> intended to exclude "dictionary-only" terms, but it also keeps out many
> dialectal and slang terms, not to mention early reports of usage both
> spoken and written. I suppose all this means that I shouldn't bother
> posting such citations, as ADSers on this list are likely to look at
> Wiktionary for clues without any help from me.
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2025 at 10:26 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> 00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > Interesting topic, JL and Dennis.
> > Here is a slight improvement to the Wiktionary citation. This citation
> > points to the same music album.
> >
> > Usenet discussion message,
> > Timestamp: Oct 15, 1993, 1:18:39 PM
> > Newsgroup: rec.music.misc
> > From: Gonzo
> > Subject: RELEASE: Recent and Upcoming Album Releases: 93-41
> > Google Groups Search; Accessed Nov 15, 2025
> > https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.misc/c/Hf7YZPE_XTI/m/xQ4fP8ie4XkJ
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Date Artist/Group Title
> > ...
> > 2 Nov Lyrical Prophets I.D.G.A.F. [RM]
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > The following Usenet message clarifies the interpretation of the
> > initialism.
> >
> > Usenet discussion message,
> > Timestamp: Nov 6, 1993, 1:29:24 AM
> > Newsgroup: alt.rap
> > From: Ryan - MacMichael
> > Subject: New Lyrical Prophets release ad
> > Google Groups Search; Accessed Nov 15, 2025
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.rap/c/iaEf9ng3pSI/m/Yu2uAch4bcsJ
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > This is Laze from the Lyrical Prophets, and yes -- it's finally here:
> > the release of our fourth album, "I.D.G.A.F." ("I Don't Give A F...").
> > We're real excited about this album... lots of PHAT, PHAT, PHAT shit.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > In 1963 a high school student in Newton, Massachusetts presented a
> > more elaborate initialism without providing an interpretation:
> > I-D-G-A-F-F-A-A-R-D. I conjecture that this initialism meant: I don't
> > give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
> >
> > Yearbook: 1963 Newtonian
> > Newton High School, Newton, Massachusetts
> > Entry for Student: Philip Lawrence Gilman
> > Quote Page 158, Column 1
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/newtonian1963newt/page/158/mode/2up?q=%22I.D.G.A.F%22
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > PHILIP LAWRENCE GILMAN 138 Albemarle Rd., Newtonville
> > ...
> > Favorite Expression: I-D-G-A-F-F-A-A-R-D (I'll explain).
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > To support of my interpretation I cite Kurt Vonnegut Jr.'s 1969 novel
> > "Slaughterhouse-Five" which included the following closely related
> > expression: Go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. The primary
> > setting of the novel was WWII although the hero was "unstuck in time";
> > hence, there were multiple settings and time periods.
> >
> > Year: 1969 Copyright
> > Book Title: Slaughterhouse-Five or The Children's Crusade
> > Author: Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
> > Chapter 6
> > Quote Page 127
> > Publisher: A Delta Book: Dell Publishing Company, New York
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > "Go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut," murmured Paul Lazzaro
> > in his azure nest. "Go take a flying fuck at the moon."
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > In 1933 a publication in North Carolina employed the expression:
> > flying-leap at a rolling doughnut.
> >
> > Date: May 1933
> > Periodical: The Carolina Buccaneer
> > Article: The Missing Link
> > Start Page 23, Quote Page 28, Column 2
> > Publisher: The Publications Union of the University of North Carolina,
> > Chapel Hill
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/carolinabuccanee1019unse/page/28/mode/2up?q=+%22rolling+doughnut%22
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > The fairy god-mother then reluctantly showed me a gopher hole.
> > Sneezing in embarrassment, I took a flying-leap at a rolling doughnut.
> > Getting intensely hungry, I took off my shirt and, throwing stones
> > industriously, I jumped on the back of a galloping goose and went
> > home.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dennis C. During
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org