[Ads-l] "War is Hell"

Sat Sep 27 00:49:17 UTC 2025

The book, The Helleniad, an Epic Poem, by George McHenry, published in 1850 (available in various online archives including HathiTrust), includes the lines,

"Preferring hell to heaven: for war is hell, and peace is heaven even in this world."

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2025 11:34:19 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "War is Hell"

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Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: "War is Hell"
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Fred's "The New Yale Book of Quotations" has a pertinent entry:

[Begin excerpt]
Napoleon I
French emperor and general, 1769=E2=80=931821

War is hell.
Quoted in John Livingston, Portraits of Eminent Americans Now Living
(1854). Livingston cited an unspecified 1835 publication by Charles
Brooks that stated, "Bonaparte said,=E2=80=94'War is hell.'" This preceded =
by
many years the use of the expression by William Tecumseh Sherman, who
has long been accepted as the originator.
[End excerpt]

John Baker posted the 1854 citation to the ADS list back in 2009, and
he posted an interesting 1850 citation within a poem.
https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2009-January/087049.html

Napoleon received credit for a germane variant statement in 1845.

Date: January 14, 1845
Periodical: Oberlin Evangelist
Periodical Location: Oberlin, Ohio
https://books.google.com/books?id=3DmzJFAAAAYAAJ&q=3D%22is+a+hell%22+#v=3Ds=
nippet&

[Begin excerpt]
"A battle is a hell." - Napoleon.
[End excerpt]

A preliminary search revealed no relevant early matches for:
Une bataille est un enfer

Garson

On Fri, Sep 26, 2025 at 1:18=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Lighter
<00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> 1859 Boston Evening Transcript (Oct. 29) 6 [Newspapers.com]:  "War is
> hell," said Napoleon I, and  so say the laws of God.
>
> 1865 "Yale" in_The  Golden Era_ (S.F.) (Apr. 16) 3 [GenealogyBank]: Peace
> is Heaven; War is hell.
>
> JL
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:01=E2=80=AFPM Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wr=
ote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "War is Hell"
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
> >
> > I understand that this is of no particular value, but, according to a
> > biography of Sherman from some time in the last century, of which I
> > have no other memory, what he actually said was something like,
> >
> > "There are those fools who reckon war a glorious and heroic
> > undertaking. But I have seen war, and it is hell."
> >
> > Or something more-or-less to that effect.
> >
> > -Wilson
> > =E2=80=93=E2=80=93=E2=80=93
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -----
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Baker, John <JMB at stradley.com> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: "War is Hell"
> > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
> > >
> > >        Google Books has this example, which pushes the attribution to
> > > Napoleon back to 1835, or at any rate to 1854.  This is from an essay=
 on
> > > the life of the Rev. Charles Brooks, of Massachusetts (1795-    ), in
> > > John Livingston, Portraits of Eminent Americans Now Living 483 (1854)=
:
> > >
> > >        <<In 1835, he published his views of war and the means of
> > > preventing it.  His statement was this--". . . . Bonaparte said,--'Wa=
r
> > > is hell.'  It surely is a suspension of the laws of God.">>
> > >
> > >        The text doesn't seem to give any further indication of where
> > > and how Brooks published his views in 1835.  Incidentally, what Brook=
s
> > > sought was a high Court of Nations to resolve disputes.
> > >
> > >
> > >        Google Books also has an 1850 example, not referring to
> > > Napoleon, in George McHenry, The Helleniad, An Epic Poem 66 (1850):
> > >
> > >        <<Preferring hell to heaven: for war is hell,
> > >          And peace is heaven even in this world.>>
> > >
> > >
> > > John Baker
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Beh=
alf
> > > Of Jonathan Lighter
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:41 AM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: "War is Hell"
> > >
> > > FWIW, I have found no online evidence that Napoleon Bonaparte ever wr=
ote
> > > or said the words, "La guerre, c'est l'infer."
> > >
> > > Ah, well; as one might have expected.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth=
."
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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