[Ads-l] Further Antedating of "Mad Scientist"

Tue Aug 4 13:21:13 UTC 2026

Was it this one? From Poetry Soup:

"Mad Scientist

Take a second look at me, for beneath this midriff flab
and balding pate and wrinkly skin you'll find a science lab. ..."

SD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Lighter" <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
To: "American Dialect Society" <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, 3 August, 2026 20:01:59
Subject: Re: Further Antedating of "Mad Scientist"

Undoubtedly a Mad Scientist. But when did the concept become a cultural
meme, known to all?

My own recollection goes back to comic books of the late '50s.  By then
there were quite a few Mad Scientists running loose.

I first read of a "mad science lab" in a humorous poem of the mid '80s,
which I can't quite bring to mind.  It involved Dr. Frankenstein, and "lab"
rhymed with "flab."

JL

On Mon, Aug 3, 2026 at 1:29 PM Jeff Prucher <
000000b93183dc86-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:

>  Ugh -- Yahoo really hates Listservs, or vice versa. Hopefully this
> version of the citation is more legible:
>
> The Morning News (Savannah, Ga.) (newspaperarchives.com)
> (this one says "from the London Tid-Bits", so presumably there is an
> earlier date yet, but I haven't tried looking for archives of Tid-Bits or
> Tit-Bits as it was originally titled.)
>
> "The Finger of Fire"
> March 19, 1893
> p. 15/2
> Nerving myself for the blow, I felled the mad scientist dead at my feet.
>
>     On Monday, August 3, 2026 at 10:25:28 AM PDT, Jeff Prucher <
> 000000b93183dc86-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
>   The third citation in HDSF (July 11, 1893) is pretty clearly the modern
> mad scientist: The scientist in question has found a way to make water
> combust in a self-sustaining reaction and wants to hold the world for
> ransom or he will burn up the entire ocean.
> The same story was reprinted many times in various newspapers. This is the
> earliest I found in newspaperarchives:
> The Morning News (Savannah, Ga.) (newspaperarchives.com) (this one says
> "from the London Tid-Bits", so presumably there is an earlier date yet, but
> I haven't tried looking for archives of Tid-Bits or Tit-Bits as it was
> originally titled.)
> "The Finger of Fire"March 19, 1893p. 15/2Nerving myself for the blow, I
> felled the mad scientist dead at my feet.
> -Jeff Prucher
>     On Monday, August 3, 2026 at 08:20:17 AM PDT, John Baker <
> 0000192d2eeb9639-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
>  In fairness, I understand that the movie version of Frankenstein would
> definitely qualify as a mad scientist. But that came later.
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2026, at 10:30 PM, Rich Lowenthal <
> 000018596069864c-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Dr. Frankenstein was "mad" in the sense that he crossed boundaries and
> performed experiments that should not be done. Another early example of the
> trope is Coppelius in E.T.A. Hoffman's "The Sandman" story, which predated
> "Frankenstein" by a couple of years. Of course the phrase "mad scientist"
> is not used of either in the texts.
> >
> > What I believe is lacking in "Frankenstein" (I haven't read the book in
> years) is the later connection of insanity with genius, an idea that
> developed later in the century among Victorian thinkers. Dr. Frankenstein
> was reckless rather than insane, and tries to correct what he had done. I
> would attribute the modern conception of the mad scientist to Wells,
> working from ideas of Thomas Huxley as well as writings in the Victorian
> journal "Mind" (first published 1876 and still in business today).
> >
> > Of course none of this is helpful in identifying the first use of the
> phrase. But I do think Dr. Frankenstein gets a bit of a bum rap these days.
> >
> >
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > From "John Baker" <0000192d2eeb9639-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > To ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Date 8/3/2026 8:23:33 AM
> > Subject Re: Further Antedating of "Mad Scientist"
> >
> >> Frankenstein was not really mad, at least in the mad scientist sense,
> in the original novel. Doctor Moreau (1896) or Griffin of The Invisible Man
> (1897) might be a candidate.
> >>
> >>
> >> John Baker
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Aug 3, 2026, at 8:51 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> 00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The larger issue for me and perhaps millions of others is not when the
> >>> collocation "mad scientist" appeared, but when the Mad Scientist as a
> >>> cultural figure developed from the mad scientist as a harmless
> >>> eccentric or highly misguided weirdo.
> >>>
> >>> I would guess that Viktor Frankenstein was the first Mad Scientist.
> >>> Does anyone know when or if he was so described? (Creators of medieval
> >>> golems were not scientists.)
> >>>
> >>> BTW, the Mad Scientists on _Mystery Science Theater 2000_ were always
> >>> referred to as "the Mads."
> >>>
> >>> JL
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 10:32 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
> >>>> <00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The citation below was published after the excellent citation Fred
> >>>> found. I think the "mad scientist" is depicted as "dangerous and evil"
> >>>> but not "insane".
> >>>>
> >>>> [Begin HDSF definition]
> >>>> mad scientist n.
> >>>> a scientist who is insane or eccentric, esp. so as to be dangerous or
> >>>> evil: a stock figure of melodramatic horror stories
> >>>> [End HDSF definition]
> >>>>
> >>>> Date: May 15, 1875
> >>>> Newspaper: Lewiston Evening Journal
> >>>> Newspaper Location: Lewiston, Maine
> >>>> Article: City and County
> >>>> Quote Page 3, Column 2
> >>>> Database: GenealogyBank
> >>>>
> >>>> [Bein excerpt]
> >>>> The orioles have come and the taxidermists are after them. Can't
> >>>> science let these beautiful birds alone—at least those that make their
> >>>> homes in the gardens of the city? Some mad scientist attempted to
> >>>> shoot an oriole under the chamber window of one of our citizens, early
> >>>> Saturday morning. The citizens expostulated, and the man of science
> >>>> withdrew.
> >>>> [End excerpt]
> >>>>
> >>>> Garson
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 3:45 PM Jonathan Lighter
> >>>>> <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not "mad" in the later nuance of "malevolently and dangerously
> insane."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2026 at 3:30 PM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks, Fred. Now added to HDSF.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I note that the 1883 citation that had been the earliest in HDSF
> was also submitted by one Fred Shapiro.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jesse Sheidlower
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2026 at 05:31:04PM +0000, Shapiro, Fred wrote:
> >>>>>>> mad scientist (OED 1893, Historical Dictionary of Science Fiction
> 1883)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1871 Daily Patriot (Washington, DC) 21 Aug. 2/3 (Newspapers.com)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We find twenty mad scientists airing their crotchets of
> differential expansion, strength in weakness, and the like.  This is not
> testimony of experts at all, but vagary of eccentrics.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Fred Shapiro
> >>>>>>>
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