[Ads-l] Further Antedating of "Props" (Due Respect)

Mon May 18 03:50:40 UTC 2026

Nice, Garson. Taking "props" back this far lends credence to the idea that
"props" derives from "propers" as used by Aretha Franklin in "Respect" in
1968.

Wrote about that for the Atlantic here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/08/aretha-franklin-finally-gets-her-props/568555/
archived, non-paywalled: https://archive.is/dizrp

On Sun, May 17, 2026 at 9:47 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:

> Great work, Ben, Fred, and everyone. Here is a match with the desired
> sense in April 1974. The extended excerpt shows the context. The
> quotation marks indicate that the journalist believed 'props' would be
> new to many of the newspaper readers.
>
> Date: April 9, 1974
> Newspaper: Morning Star
> Newspaper Location: Rockford, Illinois
> Article: Black, whites cheer Aaron and historic home run blast
> Author: Mike Imrem
> Quote Page C1, Column 2
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-morning-star-props/197755257/
>
> [Begin excerpt
> "This has never been a black-white thing with me," said Chester
> Holliman in the V-High Club, where all the patrons were black.
>
> "To me, it's always been 'may the best man win.' Babe Ruth was one
> hellacious ballplayer, and now Hank Aaron has proven he's just a
> little bit better.
>
> "But it would've been the same to me if it was Mickey Mantle or Roger
> Maris. If the dude is good, give him his 'props.' If a man is
> qualified, you have to give him credit no matter what color he is."
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2026 at 7:41 AM Shapiro, Fred
> <00001ac016895344-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I think the following is an earlier citation for "props" meaning "due
> respect":
> >
> > 1979 Saginaw News 4 May C1/6 (Newspapers.com)  "During that time," Alice
> says proudly, "I was one of the most popular radio announcers."  "I got my
> props from some of the best of the white and black radio disc jockeys."
> >
> > Fred Shapiro
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Ben Zimmer <00001aae0710f4b7-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2026 2:07 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Antedating of "Props" (Due Respect)
> >
> > Nice find, Garson. Here are examples of "give me my props" from 1980 and
> > 1983, both in basketball contexts.
> >
> > ---
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-des-moines-register-give-me-my-props%2F197701581%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210845711%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Tdli1jWf99MKMBc%2B5Q8M2StuffH%2BSueUJad0rLipBJA%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-des-moines-register-give-me-my-props/197701581/
> >
> > Des Moines Sunday Register, Picture Magazine, Nov. 30, 1980, p. 8, col. 2
> > "They give me my props," that last phrase being street talk for "they
> give
> > me my due."
> > [quoting Lewis Lloyd, then a college basketball player at Drake
> University]
> > ---
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Farticle%2Fst-louis-post-dispatch-give-me-my-props%2F197701623%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210868961%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=knRzYFaebUVgL3wl4ol9ouwIqQWwOtS%2FtSQZ%2FNktoD0%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-louis-post-dispatch-give-me-my-props/197701623/
> >
> > St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Mar. 28, 1983, p. 4B, col. 2
> > "He wants to be known like Ralph Sampson and Pat Ewing," said Houston's
> > Clyde Drexler. "He says, 'give me my props (recognition).'"
> > ---
> >
> > --bgz
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2026 at 1:28 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > 00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Here is an unambiguous instance of "props" with the desired sense in
> > > June 1985. The article specifies the meaning. The U.S. professional
> > > baseball pitcher Dennis "Oil Can" Boyd spoke about how he treated new
> > > players.
> > >
> > > Date: June 19, 1985
> > > Newspaper: Concord, New Hampshire
> > > Newspaper Location: Concord, New Hampshire
> > > Article: 'Oil Can' Spouts Off As Red Sox Pour It On (Continuation
> title:
> > > Hohler)
> > > Author: Bob Hohler (Monitor Columnist)
> > > Quote Page 14, Column 4
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > >
> > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Farticle%2Fconcord-monitor-props%2F197700459%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210882062%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LZrJcPMgFkzIAvvmHVTNTMf%2Fl7Sr4vVrMJX7n7Sc33s%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.newspapers.com/article/concord-monitor-props/197700459/>
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > "Just give him a chance, man. Don't talk him down and call him no
> > > rookie. If my brothers knew people were calling me a rookie, man, they
> > > woulda jumped all over 'em. I don't come from that stuff. We give a
> > > man his props (proper respect)."
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 1:06 PM Ben Zimmer
> > > <00001aae0710f4b7-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Here are a few examples of "props" from rap songs released in 1989:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > 1989 DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, "Jeff Waz On The Beat Box"
> > > > But straight up, man, you gotta give him his props
> > > > ---
> > > > 1989 Freddie Foxxx, "Stop, Look & Listen"
> > > > Kill your brain, give you no props
> > > > ---
> > > > 1989 Freddie Foxxx, "The Master"
> > > > Come strong, and you might get props, son
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > Via Matt Kohl's site The Right Rhymes:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherightrhymes.com%2Fprops%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210894060%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dm3XXr4AnewvxV9GsPe6uy1LXFmbKc47Iet2p8L1UcQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://therightrhymes.com/props/>
> > > >
> > > > The site gives the release date of "Jeff Waz On The Beat Box" as
> Apr. 17,
> > > > 1989, but that might be an error. The song was on DJ Jazzy Jeff & The
> > > Fresh
> > > > Prince's album "And in This Corner..." released on Oct. 17, 1989.
> (It was
> > > > also on the B-side of the "I Think I Can Beat Mike Tyson" 12",
> released
> > > > around the same time.)
> > > >
> > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frateyourmusic.com%2Frelease%2Falbum%2Fd_j-jazzy-jeff-and-the-fresh-prince%2Fand-in-this-corner%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210906297%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MR%2BiZGM%2BxuIf0r9BsGn7h5hNlO7zYireROdJFFXWLag%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/d_j-jazzy-jeff-and-the-fresh-prince/and-in-this-corner/
> >
> > > >
> > > > The two Freddie Foxxx songs are from his album "Freddie Foxxx Is
> Here,"
> > > > released on Oct. 13, 1989.
> > > >
> > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frateyourmusic.com%2Frelease%2Falbum%2Ffreddie-foxxx%2Ffreddie-foxxx-is-here-2%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210918611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FHVvDMovGehXha8GYdybXhsr%2BD7tO3%2FXSHYolL3JgRE%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/freddie-foxxx/freddie-foxxx-is-here-2/
> >
> > > >
> > > > The Right Rhymes also lists a purported example from 1988, Biz
> Markie's
> > > > "Make The Music With Your Mouth, Biz." (Some sites date the song to a
> > > 1986
> > > > EP.) A line from the song is transcribed as "It's not all the props,
> > > > spittin', breathin hard, and doin." That transcription appears to
> come
> > > from
> > > > the Original Hip-Hop Lyrics Archive:
> > > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohhla.com%2Fanonymous%2Fbizmark%2Fgoin_off%2Fmake_msc.biz.txt&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210930323%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CtohEVY%2Bfez4zGBFPI2N%2Bc2cJIO3UgLggn5Vt48ENPA%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/bizmark/goin_off/make_msc.biz.txt>
> > > >
> > > > But on Genius, that line is transcribed as "It's not all about
> spittin',
> > > > breathin' hard and chewin'."
> > > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgenius.com%2FBiz-markie-make-the-music-with-your-mouth-biz-lyrics&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210942239%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=u5dJ1zSRkQBJobFzaCcIG%2Fm8EtvvGZaZ2iVfwZ4XXGk%3D&reserved=0
> <https://genius.com/Biz-markie-make-the-music-with-your-mouth-biz-lyrics>
> > > >
> > > > From a quick listen, the Genius version seems to be correct.
> > > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4t1zgmjBRjA%26t%3D152s&data=05%7C02%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C465b0445870f4cd41ec608deb3dabbc8%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C639145949210954357%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fNKP43xWukAoiol596vpW9%2F7T3GfPmJg1%2Fijni0YQYc%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t1zgmjBRjA&t=152s> (at 2:32)
> > > >
> > > > --bgz
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 7:14 AM Shapiro, Fred <
> > > > 00001ac016895344-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > props (OED 1990)
> > > > >
> > > > > 1989 Chicago Metro News 3 June 4 (GenealogyBank)
> > > > >
> > > > > In a school system 65 percent Black, no one can expect the Black
> > > community
> > > > > to sit back and watch the superintendency snatched away and,
> secondly,
> > > Dr.
> > > > > Byrd should be given all his props and allowed to compete for his
> own
> > > job
> > > > > in the same manner that other candidates will.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred Shapiro
>
>

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