[Ads-l] soldier = sailor

Sat May 30 21:11:58 UTC 2026

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/cartoon-villain-hegseth-shredded-cringe-201736182.html
 :

Hegseth shredded for ‘cringe’ pep talk to Navy soldiers about Iran war

JL

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:52 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: soldier = sailor
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This shows that all was still well with the world three years ago. Or does
> it?
>
> Newsweek felt compelled to print the  following correction to a movie
> review
> it published in October, 2006:
>
> [http://www.newsweek.com/id/44948]  CORRECTION:  In "Inside the Hero
> Factory" (Oct. 23), we said the flag raising at Iwo Jima was conducted by
> six soldiers, when in fact the flag was hoisted by five Marines and a Navy
> corpsman.
>
> JL
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: soldier = sailor
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I believe the "pursuit" was dropped and "fighter" adopted when the Army
> Air
> > Forces became the USAF in 1948. At least all the P-planes became F-planes
> > at
> > that time.
> >
> > The last official fighter-bomber that I know of was the FB-111, the
> > strategic version of the F-111. That's a different use (i.e., fighter
> that
> > is being used as a strategic bomber) of "fighter-bomber" than the WWII
> use.
> >
> > A howitzer is a low-velocity cannon that fires shells with high
> > trajectories. A gun is a high-velocity cannon that fires shells with a
> low
> > or nearly flat trajectory. It's a fine distinction that can safely be
> > ignored in all but the most technical of contexts.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of
> >  Wilson Gray
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:24 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: soldier = sailor
> >
> > During The War, the term, "fighter-bomber," was in common use. It's
> > not as though this sort of thing is a new tactical development. But
> > what's now called a "fighter plane" - F-Numeral - was called a
> > "pursuit aeroplane," e.g., the Curtiss _P_-40 used by the Flying
> > Tigers. That change is (relatively) new. (No doubt, the
> > then-still-ongoing shift from "aero-" to "air-" annoyed purists of the
> > day. The only form that I have ever used is "airplane," though I can
> > recall that some people in Marshall used "aeroplane" [&@r at pl&In],
> > including my fella-chirren, and was still used in the dictionary and
> > in literature, by the time that I could read such big words.)  What's
> > new is no longer bothering to make the distinction, presumably on the
> > assumption that "a difference that makes no difference is no
> > difference."
> >
> > As for submarines, I agree with Jon. During The War, there were only
> > submarines, pig-boats, and u-boats, in the funny-books of the era.
> >
> > Merely asking for information: what is a howitzer, if not, like a
> cannon, a
> > gun?
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> > > Subject:      Re: soldier = sailor
> > >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > >
> > > There are different levels of error in "fighter plane" (referring to
> any
> > > combat aircraft) and "fighter sub."
> > >
> > > "Fighter" is the jargon term for a class of aircraft, it is not a
> jargon
> > > term for a class of submarine. The term the movie critic should have
> used
> > is
> > > "attack sub," or perhaps "fighting sub."
> > >
> > > From the use of "fighter sub" I would not say that this movie critic
> had
> > > "professional-level skills," at least not in writing about naval
> > subjects.
> > > The use of the term, in fact, displays remarkable ignorance of the
> > subject
> > > matter. That said, I've seen many uses of "soldier" to mean "service
> > > member," "warrior," or "warfighter," subsuming sailors in its
> definition,
> > > but usually in email, conversational speech, or other non-editorial
> > contexts
> > > and generally not in published writing.
> > >
> > > Also the CNN error is more understandable in that as years have gone
> by,
> > > fighter aircraft have taken on more and more of the bombing or
> > ground-attack
> > > role. "Attack aircraft" (i.e., light bombers) have largely disappeared
> > from
> > > the American military arsenal, replaced by multi-purpose fighters.
> (Case
> > in
> > > point: the F-117 Stealth Fighter, which is designed for bombing, not
> > > air-to-air combat.) In the USAF and USN today, the two classes of
> combat
> > > aircraft are intercontinental-range strategic bombers and fighters
> (with
> > a
> > > few older attack aircraft still hanging on). The CNN error is more akin
> > to
> > > calling a "howitzer" a "gun" or "shell fragments" being called
> > "shrapnel,"
> > > although not nearly as technically nitpicky.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Jonathan Lighter
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:37 AM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: soldier = sailor
> > >
> > > Weve already discussed whether or when marines are ever soldiers.  But
> > the
> > > following ex., obviously written by someone with professional-level
> > > skills, shows that "soldier" now subsumes sailors too, at least for
> some
> > > people:
> > >
> > >
> > > 2007 _Moviefone_ [
> > > http://insidemovies.moviefone.com/2007/03/07/feature-page-5-1-films/]:
> > > German director Wolfgang Petersen's U-boat drama realistically captures
> > the
> > > claustrophobia and uncertainty of a fighter sub and portrays the German
> > > soldiers as real people, not Aryan monsters.
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps, as skeptics will chuckle, this is merely a slip. Maybe. But if
> > so,
> > > it is a bizarre slip IMO. The writer obviously knows what the movie is
> > > about.
> > >
> > > Consider too the peculiar phrase "fighter sub." That supports the idea
> > that
> > > the writer is not very familiar with even everyday military/naval
> usage,
> > at
> > > least as little boys grew up learning it in the '50s.  I've heard Fox
> > News
> > > refer to all combat aircraft as "fighter planes."
> > >
> > > (If you don't understand my point, you may be proving it.)
> > >
> > > The explanation (if one is needed) may be that over the past couple of
> > > decades, all members of the armed forces have come to be described in
> > > journalism as "warriors" generally. (There are several reasons for
> this.)
> > > But if "warrior" can subsume "sailor," why can't "soldier"?
> > >
> > > Inglish. Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >
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> > >
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> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Wilson
> > ---
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -Mark Twain
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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