[Algonquiana] participle dictionary question

[MONICA MACAULAY]

Yes, I’ll certainly try asking, but I don’t expect that she’ll know it.  I think at this point what I have to figure out is what would be most useful to learners, so those are the people I will also be asking.

I’m actually going through these because I’m going to do a little presentation for the language teachers about ways to create words.  They’ve decided they need to get serious about coining new words for new things.  Truly heaven for a morphologist!  :-)

Thanks for your responses!

- Monica

> On Nov 26, 2015, at 8:50 AM, Wolvengrey, Arok <awolvengrey at firstnationsuniversity.ca> wrote:
> 
> Hi Monica,
> 
> I agree with cross-referencing the two.  In the glossaries of Ahenakew and Wolfart, which I have followed, the code that we've used for participles, (or invariant, seemingly inflected forms of verbs used as nouns) is INM (indeclinable nominal).  In this case, it would certainly be treated as an animate, and the demonstrative I presume makes that explicit, so it might perhaps be preferable to differentiate the gender of INMs?  Or, as Danielle points out, if you can determine if it is fully nominalized (what's the plural?), then NA should do it.
> 
> ᐋᐧᐱ ᑭᐦᐃᐤ
> Arok Wolvengrey
> Professor, Algonquian Languages and Linguistics and
> Department Head of Indigenous Languages, Arts and Cultures
> First Nations University of Canada
> 1 First Nations Way
> Regina, SK   S4S 7K2
> 
> phone:  (306) 790-5950 ext. 3310
> fax:      (306) 790-5995
> e-mail:  awolvengrey at fnuniv.ca
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: Algonquiana [algonquiana-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] on behalf of Danielle E. Cyr [dcyr at yorku.ca]
> Sent: November 26, 2015 8:41 AM
> To: MONICA MACAULAY
> Cc: Algonquiana
> Subject: Re: [Algonquiana] participle dictionary question
> 
> Hi Monica,
> 
> Very good question. And very tricky. Your idea of cross referencing it seems good. However, I guess you will have to enter one as an a.i.v. and the other as a a.n.
> 
> Also, even if the initial change has long disappeared in Menominee, you could still ask your speaker how he feels about payītāqnamapet standing alone or not. It might have nominalized as such. See if it can be used with cardinal numbers, with nominal suffixes or prefixes, etc. Those would be indications of a nominalization and, if so, you could enter it as an a.n. without the demonstrative.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Danielle
> ___________________________________________Dr. Danielle E. Cyr, Senior Scholar at York University339, boul. Perron ouestNew Richmond, QC,       G0C 2BOdcyr at yorku.ca - 418.392.7271
> 
> 
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: MONICA MACAULAY <mmacaula at wisc.edu>
>> To: "Algonquiana" <ALGONQUIANA at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 7:31 AM
>> Subject: [Algonquiana] participle dictionary question
>> 
>> Hey fellow dictionary-makers,
>> 
>> How would you enter something like this:
>>      ayom payītāqnamapet 'this person who sits facing hither; the presiding officer’
>>      (from Bloomfield’s Menominee grammar, p. 501)
>> 
>> It seems like it would be useful to have a word for ‘presiding officer’ in the dictionary, but it seems weird to enter it under the demonstrative “ayom” (‘this (animate)’).  But is it misleading to enter it under the participle "payītāqnamapet”?  I have no idea if you could use it without the demonstrative (and can’t ask the one speaker I’m still working with because initial change is long gone in modern Menominee).
>> 
>> The solution I’m thinking of is to enter a cross-reference under “payītāqnamapet” (i.e. it would say “see ayom payītāqnamapet”) and then have "ayom payītāqnamapet” be the main entry.
>> 
>> Has anybody dealt with this issue?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> - Monica
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> 
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