[An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino

Tue Jun 7 23:07:38 UTC 2005

 <<
Since a number of Northern Philippine languages do have [f], ...
>>

I heard this mentioned before, at a time when I was not interested, but
now I'm curious as to whether they are 'true' fricatives, and the extent
(points of articulation, voicing), and perhaps some explanation why only
(?) in Norther Philippine languages. Would you have some references?
Someone must have collected the sounds of Philippine languages. Perhaps
a [z], a click, or a phonemic tone lurk somewhere in some other
Philippine languages. With [f, v, z, th ...] established as native
sounds in Filipino after all, a whole lot of Alfredos, Valentins,
Zenaidas, Thelmas will feel a new sense of nationalism, I'm sure.

The whole issue, of course, as I pointed out in my earlier email, is the
result of a historical accident. Would that the name donor had been
Queen Isabela. I wouldn't mind saying, "I'm an Isabelan and I speak
Isabelan." Though the sound of "I'm an Imeldan and I speak Imeldan"
doesn't fit well with me -- it makes me feel like my shoes are too
tight.

On a lighter tone, and very out of topic, I think the people and the
place (and now the language) deserve new names, names that would have
emerged had their native aspirations not interrupted, capture the spirit
of 1898, and at the same time names that don't remind everyone of their
colonial heritage (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Resty

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Quakenbush [mailto:steve_quakenbush at sil.org]
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 6:58 PM
To: Cena, Resty; Christopher Sundita; AN-LANG
Subject: Re: [An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino

Thank you for correcting an overgeneralization, Resty. Your refinements
according to situation and language being used are well taken.

I stand corrected that "Pilipino" [pilipino] is indeed the way Filipinos
generally refer to fellow Filipinos when speaking in Philippine
languages.
It is also true that, although "Pilipino" as a language is a thing of
the past, [pilipino] as a pronunciation for the national language
(Filipino) lives on for many Filipinos (English name)/mga Pilipino
(Tagalog name).
Since a number of Northern Philippine languages do have [f], maybe they
are the more politically correct ones when they speak of the national
language?

I share your surprise that the name given to a national language could
hinge on a phoneme that doesn't exist in ?most Philippine languages.

I still hold that "Filipino" is the proper way to spell the language
name, and the preferable way to spell the people name--in English. Who
needs a spelling like "Philippino"?

Things might have been easier if the Spanish king's name had been
something other than Felipe, but something like Ferdinand wouldn't have
helped much, would it?

Mabuhay!

Steve Q

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cena, Resty" <rcena at epcor.ca>
To: "Steve Quakenbush" <steve_quakenbush at sil.org>; "Christopher Sundita"
<csundita at yahoo.com>; "AN-LANG" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino

> Since the sound [f] is not a part of the inventory of sounds of
Tagalog
> and majority of Philippine languages, I find it a bit of an anomaly
that
> the language is called Filipino. The letter f is a retention in
imported
> proper names, and even so, most speakers pronounce f as p, except
educated
> speakers who consciously make the effort to make the distinction and
only
> in certain situations. Ferdinand is Perdinand to speakers on the
street.
> One may say, "But what's in a letter symbol?" The phoneme /f/ may be
given
> two sounds, [p] and [f], the latter in the context of proper names and
> with a group of speakers and only in certain social situations, thus
> lamely justifying the use of f in Filipino (the language).
>
> <<
> One reason not to refer to Philippine citizens as "Pilipinos" with a
"P"
> is that they would not refer to themselves that way.
>>>
>
> But only in the context of English communication, written or spoken.
> Living abroad, I've never heard any Filipino say "Filipino ka ba?"
It's
> always "Pilipino ka ba?"
>
> Also "Filipino" in the first place is a misspelling. I get emails
asking
> me if I were a "Philippino".
>
> So it would seem that the names of the language and the people, in
actual
> use, apart from official pronouncements, depend on who is speaking,
the
> listener, the language of communication, and the social situation. I
> wouldn't say this is unique to the Philippine situation.
>
> Ah, some things would be simpler had the monarch of the day in 1521
was
> named Edward, or Isabella, or ...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au]
On
> Behalf Of Steve Quakenbush
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 6:23 PM
> To: Christopher Sundita; AN-LANG
> Subject: Re: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino
>
> (I realize this is not quite central to the question of what "Malay"
> means, but due to the use of the term "Pilipino" in the preceding
> dialogue, I would like to insert that...)
>
> One reason not to refer to Philippine citizens as "Pilipinos" with a
"P"
> is that they would not refer to themselves that way. They may very
likely
> refer to themselves as "Filipinos" with an "F", however. Despite the
fact
> that the name of the country is "Republika ng Pilipinas" with a "P",
its
> residents are properly referred to as "Filipinos" with an "F", in both
the
> English and Filipino languages.
>
> Likewise, the politically correct way to refer to the current national
> language (as decreed by the 1987 Constitution, Article 14, Section 6)
is
> Filipino with an "F", not Pilipino with a "P".
>
> "Pilipino" was used during a certain period of Philippine history to
refer
> to one the "official" languages of the country, but "Filipino" now
takes
> the place of "Pilipino" as both an "official" and "national" language
of
> the Philippines (with a "Ph"!). Basically, "Pilipino" no longer
exists.
>
> Steve Q
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
> To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms
>
>

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