[An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino

Wed Jun 8 03:57:05 UTC 2005

I remember knowing - long before, and after,  I became a linguist - that the
Kapampangans were known to be prone to pronouncing  /p/ as /f/ and which
had/have been the subject of many a joke.

Anyhow, with a number of Philippine languages having /f/ - wouldn't this
justify naming the Philippine National Language legally and officially
"Filipino"?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurie Reid" <reid at hawaii.edu>
To: "Cena, Resty" <rcena at epcor.ca>
Cc: "AN-LANG" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino

> There is at least one published article which details the variety of
> phones in Philippine languages:
>
> Jacobson, M. R. (1979). Phones in Philippine languages. Studies in
> Philippine Linguistics 3(1): 138-164.
>
> In a number of the Central Cordilleran languages, including several of
> the Bontok dialects (such as that spoken in Guinaang, Malegcong and
> Tukukan), [f] (a voiceless, labio-dental fricative) occurs as the pre-
> vocalic variant of /b/.  In other dialects (such as Mainit) the
> variant is [v].  Incidentally these dialects also have aspirated
> voiceless velar stops (the prevocalic variants of /g/), voiceless
> palatal affricates (the prevocalic variants of /d/), and voiced
> alveolar frictionless continuants--just like English non-flapped or
> trilled r, as a variant of /l/. The variants of the voiced stop series
> is discussed in:
>
> Himes, R. S. (1984-85). Allophonic variation and the Bontok-Kankanaey
> voiced stops. Philippine Journal of Linguistics 15(2) -16(1): 49-56.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cena, Resty" <rcena at epcor.ca>
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2005 8:07 am
> Subject: RE: [An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino
>
>> <<
>> Since a number of Northern Philippine languages do have [f], ...
>> >>
>>
>> I heard this mentioned before, at a time when I was not
>> interested, but
>> now I'm curious as to whether they are 'true' fricatives, and the
>> extent(points of articulation, voicing), and perhaps some
>> explanation why only
>> (?) in Norther Philippine languages. Would you have some references?
>> Someone must have collected the sounds of Philippine languages.
>> Perhapsa [z], a click, or a phonemic tone lurk somewhere in some
> other
>> Philippine languages. With [f, v, z, th ...] established as native
>> sounds in Filipino after all, a whole lot of Alfredos, Valentins,
>> Zenaidas, Thelmas will feel a new sense of nationalism, I'm sure.
>>
>> The whole issue, of course, as I pointed out in my earlier email,
>> is the
>> result of a historical accident. Would that the name donor had been
>> Queen Isabela. I wouldn't mind saying, "I'm an Isabelan and I speak
>> Isabelan." Though the sound of "I'm an Imeldan and I speak Imeldan"
>> doesn't fit well with me -- it makes me feel like my shoes are too
>> tight.
>>
>> On a lighter tone, and very out of topic, I think the people and the
>> place (and now the language) deserve new names, names that would have
>> emerged had their native aspirations not interrupted, capture the
>> spiritof 1898, and at the same time names that don't remind
>> everyone of their
>> colonial heritage (not that there's anything wrong with that).
>>
>> Resty
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Quakenbush [mailto:steve_quakenbush at sil.org]
>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 6:58 PM
>> To: Cena, Resty; Christopher Sundita; AN-LANG
>> Subject: Re: [An-lang] broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino
>>
>> Thank you for correcting an overgeneralization, Resty. Your
>> refinementsaccording to situation and language being used are well
>> taken.
>> I stand corrected that "Pilipino" [pilipino] is indeed the way
>> Filipinosgenerally refer to fellow Filipinos when speaking in
>> Philippinelanguages.
>> It is also true that, although "Pilipino" as a language is a thing of
>> the past, [pilipino] as a pronunciation for the national language
>> (Filipino) lives on for many Filipinos (English name)/mga Pilipino
>> (Tagalog name).
>> Since a number of Northern Philippine languages do have [f], maybe
>> theyare the more politically correct ones when they speak of the
>> nationallanguage?
>>
>> I share your surprise that the name given to a national language
> could
>> hinge on a phoneme that doesn't exist in ?most Philippine languages.
>>
>> I still hold that "Filipino" is the proper way to spell the language
>> name, and the preferable way to spell the people name--in English.
> Who
>> needs a spelling like "Philippino"?
>>
>> Things might have been easier if the Spanish king's name had been
>> something other than Felipe, but something like Ferdinand wouldn't
>> havehelped much, would it?
>>
>> Mabuhay!
>>
>> Steve Q
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cena, Resty" <rcena at epcor.ca>
>> To: "Steve Quakenbush" <steve_quakenbush at sil.org>; "Christopher
>> Sundita"<csundita at yahoo.com>; "AN-LANG" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:03 AM
>> Subject: RE: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino
>>
>>
>> > Since the sound [f] is not a part of the inventory of sounds of
>> Tagalog
>> > and majority of Philippine languages, I find it a bit of an anomaly
>> that
>> > the language is called Filipino. The letter f is a retention in
>> imported
>> > proper names, and even so, most speakers pronounce f as p, except
>> educated
>> > speakers who consciously make the effort to make the distinction
> and
>> only
>> > in certain situations. Ferdinand is Perdinand to speakers on the
>> street.
>> > One may say, "But what's in a letter symbol?" The phoneme /f/
>> may be
>> given
>> > two sounds, [p] and [f], the latter in the context of proper
>> names and
>> > with a group of speakers and only in certain social situations,
> thus
>> > lamely justifying the use of f in Filipino (the language).
>> >
>> > <<
>> > One reason not to refer to Philippine citizens as "Pilipinos"
>> with a
>> "P"
>> > is that they would not refer to themselves that way.
>> >>>
>> >
>> > But only in the context of English communication, written or
> spoken.
>> > Living abroad, I've never heard any Filipino say "Filipino ka ba?"
>> It's
>> > always "Pilipino ka ba?"
>> >
>> > Also "Filipino" in the first place is a misspelling. I get emails
>> asking
>> > me if I were a "Philippino".
>> >
>> > So it would seem that the names of the language and the people, in
>> actual
>> > use, apart from official pronouncements, depend on who is speaking,
>> the
>> > listener, the language of communication, and the social
>> situation. I
>> > wouldn't say this is unique to the Philippine situation.
>> >
>> > Ah, some things would be simpler had the monarch of the day in 1521
>> was
>> > named Edward, or Isabella, or ...
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-
> bounces at anu.edu.au]
>> On
>> > Behalf Of Steve Quakenbush
>> > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 6:23 PM
>> > To: Christopher Sundita; AN-LANG
>> > Subject: Re: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms--Filipino/Pilipino
>> >
>> > (I realize this is not quite central to the question of
> what "Malay"
>> > means, but due to the use of the term "Pilipino" in the preceding
>> > dialogue, I would like to insert that...)
>> >
>> > One reason not to refer to Philippine citizens as "Pilipinos"
>> with a
>> "P"
>> > is that they would not refer to themselves that way. They may very
>> likely
>> > refer to themselves as "Filipinos" with an "F", however. Despite
> the
>> fact
>> > that the name of the country is "Republika ng Pilipinas" with
> a "P",
>> its
>> > residents are properly referred to as "Filipinos" with an "F",
>> in both
>> the
>> > English and Filipino languages.
>> >
>> > Likewise, the politically correct way to refer to the current
>> national> language (as decreed by the 1987 Constitution, Article
>> 14, Section 6)
>> is
>> > Filipino with an "F", not Pilipino with a "P".
>> >
>> > "Pilipino" was used during a certain period of Philippine
>> history to
>> refer
>> > to one the "official" languages of the country, but "Filipino" now
>> takes
>> > the place of "Pilipino" as both an "official" and "national"
>> languageof
>> > the Philippines (with a "Ph"!). Basically, "Pilipino" no longer
>> exists.
>> >
>> > Steve Q
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>> > To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>> > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:01 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [An-lang] Malay in broader terms
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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