lia-makalero

Aone van Engelenhoven aone_van_engelenhoven at HOTMAIL.COM
Thu Sep 7 06:45:14 UTC 2006 

I always thought Tetum maski was directly from East Indonesian maski (=
meski). It is used in exactly the same way, meaning 'although'.  According
to Pierre Labrousse (1985) the Indonesian word is from Portuguese. Indeed, a
direct loan from Portuguese in Tetum would probably have been something like 
'mais
ke'. In the non-Austronesian Fataluku, in the tip of East Timor, there is a
conjunction mais 'but, however'.

Aone van Engelenhoven
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 09:00:22 -0500
>From: "Paul Kroeger" <paul_kroeger at gial.edu>
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>To: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Message-ID: <008a01c6d1bc$cdf3ed90$950314ac at dallas.sil.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Chris,
>
>"Maski" is used in Tok Pisin (PNG) to mean 'never mind; forget it'.  I was
>told it came from German "es macht nichts".  How is it used in Tagalog?
>
>-- Paul Kroeger
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:00 AM
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
> > This is Tetum, correct?
> >
> > Could you tell me what the "maski" means?  I am curious, because it's in
> > Tagalog.  The etymology is supposedly from Spanish "más que." If a 
>phrase
> > existed in Portuguese, I would have expected "mais que" maybe.
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> > --- Juliette Huber <schuelietet at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Karu belun sira hotu,
> > >
> > >   ha'u hakarak husu Ita-nia ajuda kona-ba ema matenek lia-makalero i
>ninia
> > > fatin iha Europa (di'ak liu se iha rai Olanda ka Portugal).
> > >   Nia razaun katak ha'u hakarak halo peskiza ba lia-makalero. Maski 
>ha'u
> > > rasik sei la'o ba Timor-Leste, di'ak tebe-tebes se iha ema iha Europa
>mós
> > > ne'ebe prontu ajuda ha'u. Se Ita-Boot sira hatene ema ne'ebe hakarak
>ajuda
> > > ha'u, favór ida haruka lai mensajen ne'e ka fó-hatene nia naran ba 
>ha'u.
> > >   Nune'e de'it.
> > >   Ha'u hato'o ha'u-nia obrigadu ba Ita-nia atensaun no he'in hela
>Ita-nia
> > > lia-hatán.
> > >
> > >   Juliette Huber
> > >   Leiden, Olanda
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out. >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > An-lang mailing list
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> > >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 15:44:29 -0400
>From: "Paz B. Naylor" <pnaylor at umich.edu>
>Subject: RE: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>To: "'Paul Kroeger'" <paul_kroeger at gial.edu>,	"'Christopher Sundita'"
>	<csundita at yahoo.com>
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Message-ID: <000c01c6d1ec$df34bbe0$6801a8c0 at PAZ01>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>The native Tagalog synonym of maski is kahi’t – both generally meaning
>‘(not) even/even if…’.
>
>(The Panganiban dictionary lists miski/miski na as variants of maski and
>kahiman/kahimat/kahit na as synonyms of maski.)
>
>
>
>For example:
>
>(a)    maski/kahit na ilang subo man lamang, hindi makakain si Luis dahil 
>sa
>sakit ng ngipin ‘not even just a few bites could Luis eat because of his
>toothache’;
>
>(b)     maski/kahit na maglamay ka magdamag, hindi mo matatapos ang
>ipinangako mo ‘even if you stay up all night, you won’t be able to finish
>what you promised’.
>
>
>
>Chris is right:  maski is supposed to have been derived from Spanish mas 
>que
>(which is attested in Panganiban).
>
>
>
>-- Paz
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au] On
>Behalf Of Paul Kroeger
>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:00 AM
>To: Christopher Sundita
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
>
>Chris,
>
>
>
>"Maski" is used in Tok Pisin (PNG) to mean 'never mind; forget it'.  I was
>
>told it came from German "es macht nichts".  How is it used in Tagalog?
>
>
>
>-- Paul Kroeger
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>
>To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:00 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
>
>
>
> > This is Tetum, correct?
>
> >
>
> > Could you tell me what the "maski" means?  I am curious, because it's in
>
> > Tagalog.  The etymology is supposedly from Spanish "más que." If a 
>phrase
>
> > existed in Portuguese, I would have expected "mais que" maybe.
>
> >
>
> > --Chris
>
> >
>
> > --- Juliette Huber <schuelietet at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Karu belun sira hotu,
>
> > >
>
> > >   ha'u hakarak husu Ita-nia ajuda kona-ba ema matenek lia-makalero i
>
>ninia
>
> > > fatin iha Europa (di'ak liu se iha rai Olanda ka Portugal).
>
> > >   Nia razaun katak ha'u hakarak halo peskiza ba lia-makalero. Maski 
>ha'u
>
> > > rasik sei la'o ba Timor-Leste, di'ak tebe-tebes se iha ema iha Europa
>
>mós
>
> > > ne'ebe prontu ajuda ha'u. Se Ita-Boot sira hatene ema ne'ebe hakarak
>
>ajuda
>
> > > ha'u, favór ida haruka lai mensajen ne'e ka fó-hatene nia naran ba 
>ha'u.
>
> > >   Nune'e de'it.
>
> > >   Ha'u hato'o ha'u-nia obrigadu ba Ita-nia atensaun no he'in hela
>
>Ita-nia
>
> > > lia-hatán.
>
> > >
>
> > >   Juliette Huber
>
> > >   Leiden, Olanda
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ---------------------------------
>
> > > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out. >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > > An-lang mailing list
>
> > > An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
> > > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > __________________________________________________
>
> > Do You Yahoo!?
>
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > An-lang mailing list
>
> > An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
> > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>An-lang mailing list
>
>An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
>http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>
>
>
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 10:52:20 +1000
>From: "Institute of Papua New Guinea Studies" <ipngs at global.net.pg>
>Subject: RE: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>To: <pnaylor at umich.edu>, "'Paul Kroeger'" <paul_kroeger at gial.edu>,
>	"'Christopher Sundita'" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Message-ID: <001f01c6d217$e7ff8040$fc99fea9 at ytmed>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>In the Tok Pisin list we (Ross Clark, Craig Volker, and I) discussed the
>possible origins of maski 'forget it, nevermind' a while ago. Among Pacific
>pidgins/creoles, it is apparently only found in Tok Pisin, Rabaul Creole
>German (Unserdeutsch), and Chinese Pidgin English. In the latter, it is
>doucmented as early as 1769, and its origins are usually said to be from
>Portuguese mas que, meaning the same as in present-day Tok Pisin.
>
>Clark cited examples from Papia Kristang (Malacca Creole Portuguese) of
>maski 'although' and Malay meski(pun) 'although; in spite of (the fact
>that)', and there is also apparently a Bengali term with a similar form and
>meaning. He concluded that as Portuguese was the first European language
>widely used in South and East Asia, it is not surpirsing that it widely
>diffused (Malay and Begali would be within that area of influence), and
>suggested the Tok Pisin form is ultimately from Portuguese but via some 
>form
>of Malay. The relation to German es macht nichts (the etymology suggested 
>in
>the standard Tok Pisin dictionary) is at best a "fortuitous convergence".
>(Apologies to Ross if I have misrepresented his thoughts.)
>
>The discussion here of Spanish and Tagalog would certainly seem to support
>this.
>
>Don
>
>Don Niles
>Acting Director & Senior Ethnomusicologist
>Institute of Papua New Guinea Studies
>Box 1432
>Boroko 111
>PAPUA NEW GUINEA
>
>tel.: +675 325-4644
>fax: +675 325-0531
>email: ipngs at global.net.pg
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au] On
>Behalf Of Paz B. Naylor
>Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2006 5:44
>To: 'Paul Kroeger'; 'Christopher Sundita'
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Subject: RE: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
>
>The native Tagalog synonym of maski is kahi’t – both generally meaning
>‘(not) even/even if…’.
>
>(The Panganiban dictionary lists miski/miski na as variants of maski and
>kahiman/kahimat/kahit na as synonyms of maski.)
>
>
>
>For example:
>
>(a)    maski/kahit na ilang subo man lamang, hindi makakain si Luis dahil 
>sa
>sakit ng ngipin ‘not even just a few bites could Luis eat because of his
>toothache’;
>
>(b)     maski/kahit na maglamay ka magdamag, hindi mo matatapos ang
>ipinangako mo ‘even if you stay up all night, you won’t be able to finish
>what you promised’.
>
>
>
>Chris is right:  maski is supposed to have been derived from Spanish mas 
>que
>(which is attested in Panganiban).
>
>
>
>-- Paz
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au [mailto:an-lang-bounces at anu.edu.au] On
>Behalf Of Paul Kroeger
>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:00 AM
>To: Christopher Sundita
>Cc: an-lang at anu.edu.au
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
>
>Chris,
>
>
>
>"Maski" is used in Tok Pisin (PNG) to mean 'never mind; forget it'.  I was
>
>told it came from German "es macht nichts".  How is it used in Tagalog?
>
>
>
>-- Paul Kroeger
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
>
>To: <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:00 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [An-lang] lia-makalero
>
>
>
>
>
> > This is Tetum, correct?
>
> >
>
> > Could you tell me what the "maski" means?  I am curious, because it's in
>
> > Tagalog.  The etymology is supposedly from Spanish "más que." If a 
>phrase
>
> > existed in Portuguese, I would have expected "mais que" maybe.
>
> >
>
> > --Chris
>
> >
>
> > --- Juliette Huber <schuelietet at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Karu belun sira hotu,
>
> > >
>
> > >   ha'u hakarak husu Ita-nia ajuda kona-ba ema matenek lia-makalero i
>
>ninia
>
> > > fatin iha Europa (di'ak liu se iha rai Olanda ka Portugal).
>
> > >   Nia razaun katak ha'u hakarak halo peskiza ba lia-makalero. Maski 
>ha'u
>
> > > rasik sei la'o ba Timor-Leste, di'ak tebe-tebes se iha ema iha Europa
>
>mós
>
> > > ne'ebe prontu ajuda ha'u. Se Ita-Boot sira hatene ema ne'ebe hakarak
>
>ajuda
>
> > > ha'u, favór ida haruka lai mensajen ne'e ka fó-hatene nia naran ba 
>ha'u.
>
> > >   Nune'e de'it.
>
> > >   Ha'u hato'o ha'u-nia obrigadu ba Ita-nia atensaun no he'in hela
>
>Ita-nia
>
> > > lia-hatán.
>
> > >
>
> > >   Juliette Huber
>
> > >   Leiden, Olanda
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ---------------------------------
>
> > > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out. >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > > An-lang mailing list
>
> > > An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
> > > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > __________________________________________________
>
> > Do You Yahoo!?
>
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > An-lang mailing list
>
> > An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
> > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>An-lang mailing list
>
>An-lang at anu.edu.au
>
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>
>
>
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>**************************************


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