Teens & Twenties

Sun Nov 25 12:32:50 UTC 2007

Waruno - Quote: 

  "I cannot imagine what may have been the 
  source of having '4' as a base for numeration." 

  The 1-4 numeral system is not so baffling when you consider 
  that virtually all numbering systems began with 
  finger-counting. (Harald Hammarstrom will surely put me 
  right if I'm exaggerating).

  It just comes down to whether you consider the thumb part of 
  the finger-count or not. 

  Different ways (and directions) in totting up fingers seem 
  to have quite perceivable effects on the resulting number 
  words. Either way.
  You might even emphasise it:
  Bargam (Papuan) uses abainakinta (thumb) for 5.
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The 'Papuan' Kewa of the PNG Southern Highlands have two 
  number systems, a full body part tally (hand, up arm, over, 
  and down the other side) giving a 47-cycle number system, 
  used mainly by elders for massive gift exchanges, and a 1-4 
  cycle system for everyday stuff.

  They're described at:
http://www.uog.ac.pg/PUB08-Oct-03/franklin1.htm

  (The strange bit, that I still can't fathom, is how 7 = hand 
  + 3 thumbs).
---------------------------------------------------------
There's even a Papuan language (Kote, from Morobe Prov) that 
  has a 22 cycle system, because they count both nostrils as 
  well as their fingers and toes. (Wouldn't want to buy a 
  dozen bread rolls from them, though).
----------------------------------------------------------

  There are more than a few Austronesian numeral systems that 
  show vestiges of an archaic 4 cycle system, with 8 at the 
  end of the 2nd cycle, but most are now overlaid with a 10 
  cycle.

  In fact, they are rarer in New Guinea, with its multiple 
  language families, and quite absent in Papuan languages west 
  of there. They're not so very common elsewhere. (Except in 
  California - where else?)

  And there is even a suggestion of a vestigial trace of a 4 cycle 
  system in Indo-European, in that *oktô is apparently the 
  dual form of *kwetwores - Beeler (1964, p. 1). Common 
  counting in dozens may be another vestige.
  ----------------------------------------------------------

  If the 6-9 numbers are simple 5+1, 5+2, etc, then 8 would 
  include, somewhere, 3. If it's subtractive from 10, it would 
  include 2. If it includes 4 then that indicates something 
  quite different. 

  If 9 includes a 1 morpheme, then it might be like 'sembilan' 
  in Indonesian, or 'salapan' in Sunda, ie 1 from 10, or it 
  could 'start again' from 8, which it would seem to do in 
  the cases where 8 involves 4. 

  The next cycle, to 12, seems to have been mostly overlaid 
  now by 10/teen systems.
  Except, perhaps, in English, where 11 and 12 are 'irregular'.
----------------------------------------------------------

  Austronesian 4 cycles:

  Formosa: Siraya, Thao, Favorlang/Babuza, Taokas, Saisiyat, 
  Atayal, Sedeq - all show no. 8 inclusive of 4, then start 
  again with 'something different', often including a 1 
  morpheme. 

  Enggano (which may not be An at all) - has an 8 related to 4.

  Simba: Gaura Nggaura and Lamboya have 8 = pondopata ='x'.4 
  (or cognate) and banda' iha (or cognate) for 9.

  Flores: Ende, Rongga, Lio and Nghada - have 8=2x4 and 'ta 
  esa' (or cognate) for 9

  Aru: Kola, Dobel, Ngaibor, Barakai, Tarangan West, Ujir - 8= 
  karua and 9= ser, or tera (or cognates)

  Keule, Wogeo, and Biem, offshore of E Sepik Prov, PNG, have 
  straightforward and obvious 1-4 systems: Boiken, a 
  neighbouring Papuan language shares this, but only in one 
  offshore island dialect, near the An speakers. But the 
  system may be related to nearby Vanimo, Rawo and Mountain 
  Arapesh, Papuan languages, also with 1-4 number systems.

  Ormu, Tobati/Yotafa and Kayupulau near Jayapura, have 
  'symptoms' of a 4 cycle. Adjacent to them is Nafri, the only 
  member of the Sentani family to have a 4 cycle system.

  Of all these, it seems only the Wogeo/Biem and Ormu/Yotafa 
  groups may have existing neighbouring non-An languages with 
  1-4 systems. But those Papuan languages are very much in the 
  minority themselves, so without more information there is no 
  way of telling which way the influence went.

  There are other languages that have a 4 morpheme in 8, but 
  they seem to have a multiplicative system, with 6=2x3, etc, 
  rather than a 1-4 cycle:

  Wuvulu-Aua, in the Admiralties, has a strange (and very 
  lonely) number system, analysed by Dempwolff (1905) as:
1 aiai  : 1 - 1
2 gu-ai  : 2 - 1
3 odu-ai  : 3 - 1
4 gui-ne-roa : 2 - 2
5 ai-pan : : 1 hand
6 ode-roa : : 3 - 2
7 ode-ro-miai : 3 - 2 +1 
8 vai-ne-roa : 4 - 2
9 vai-ne-ro-miai : 4 - 2 +1 
  (Almost all other Admiralties numerals show the unique Manus 
  subtractive system).

  'Motu' languages (under the 'tail' of Papua New Guinea) also 
  (mostly) have a number 8 related to 4 (taura hani), and 
  9=8+1, but these also have 6='2'x3 (taura toi) with 7 = a 
  'regular' hitu, or ima ua =5/2 or 6/1 (karakoi ka pea). 
  Quite mongrel systems.

  Some of the Formosan number systems may be similar to this.

  Or something else:
Makassarese: 8=7+1 - mystery in Sulawesi, but many languages 
  in Borneo have 7= tudju (or cognate) and 8 = aya, hanga, or 
  mai, followed by 9 = piah, jalatien, riqi (or cognates), 
  which look as if they might just be 'start-agains'.

  Cognates of 'hanga' for 8 also appear in the Solomons. 

  (I have no translations or even speculative etymologies for 
  any of them, having 'discovered' them only yesterday, thanks 
  to Anthony Jukes giving me the link to his excellent new Makassarese 
  Grammar at: http://www.sendspace.com/file/2ps9y0).
  ----------------------------------------------------------

  This evidence, plus several quite scattered and different 
  'subtractive from 10' systems, suggests that Austronesian 
  number systems may have evolved individually through 
  separate stages in many different areas, ,just as 'Papuan' , and 
  many other languages appear to have done.

  They could then have invented or borrowed new words for 
  increasing needs to count exchangeable agricultural or 
  fishing surpluses, and later again adopted very widespread 
  loanwords with more contact and real trade, perhaps long 
  after proto-Austronesians or proto-Oceanics were actually 
  speaking those languages.

  (Perhaps, like the Kilivila (Trobriand) chief who got to 
  9000 and 10000, for counting shells, and ran out of options, 
  they just invented new words on the spot).

  Going through New Guinean language records, it's very 
  obvious that the new decimal Tok Pisin has influenced modern 
  speakers very quickly, obliterating earlier recorded 
  systems, at least in the higher numbers. The overlaying 
  process is ongoing, and very visible.

  In my Filipino village, everyone now uses Spanish numbers 
  for trade, and nobody can tell me the 'real Surigaonon' for 
  10, any teens, or 20 up, except 'gatus'=100, which is still 
  used in fishing and agriculture. But the 'native' system was 
  decimal anyway, so there's no radical system change.
----------------------------------------------------------
  It should be quite possible, then, to infer multiple 
  overlays of newer systems on old. 

  Tongan may be an example: 
10 = hongofulu
20 = tekau
50 = nai rima avuru  (why has hongofulu become avuru?)

  The only An languages that seem to have preserved 
  traces of apparent original number systems are out of the 
  mainstream: 

Formosa, Ilongot, Borneo, Sumba, Flores, Timor, SW Maluku, 
  Micronesia, and all of Melanesia south of a fairly definite 
  line.

  regards

  Richard

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