Arabic-L:LING:Arabic Numerals responses

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Wed 01 Nov 2000
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1) Subject: Arabic Numerals response
2) Subject: Arabic Numerals response
3) Subject: Arabic Numerals response
4) Subject: Arabic Numerals response
5) Subject: Arabic Numerals response
6) Subject: Arabic Numerals thanks

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1)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From: "Henry C. Farrell" <charfar at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

I understand that Smith and Karpinski's "The Hindu-Arabic Numerals",
published in 1911, is still considered authoritative.

They give a table of many different forms of Hindu numerals used in India in
Medieval times in place value reckoning and with a symbol for zero. (p. 49)
Some are very like the American/European versions, some more like the ones
we think of as Arabic.

They also explain the the Arabs have always known that the numerals came
from India and have always called them "Hindi".  (p. 4)  They also state
that both forms of the numerals were is use in the Arab world in Al Mamun's
time (800's). (p. 98)  And that the one form was probably brought to Europe,
perhaps many times, by traders and travelers and used some in commerce
before 900 AD.
And that by 1003, even scholars of Europe had learned about the numerals
because of the introduction of Arabic learning.

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2)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From:  J.Schneider at epixtech.com
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

I cannot answer your questions authoritatively, but I will reference you to
a couple of books.  There is a brief chapter on numerology in "The World's
Writing Systems" by Peter T. Daniels and William Bright, pp 795-805.  This
book references several others.  One that may be helpful is "From One to
Zero: A Universal History of numbers" by Georges, Ifrah 1985.

Wayne S.
Provo, UT

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3)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From: Safa Jubran <jubran at osite.com.br>
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

Yes the numbers used by the most of arabic countries ara the 'hindi'
numbers, and the numbers used by the ocident ara the arabic ones. I can say
that an arabic manuscript from 13 century that i examined contains the hindi
numeral as still used now.
Safa

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4)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From: Veracocha7 at aol.com
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

Dil...

This issue has come up a lot in my studies.....the consensus seems to be that
the ancient "Arabic" numerals are the same as what we use.  Whereas, the
numbers used in the Middle East are "hindi" numbers.  As far as when or why
the switch was made by these countries...I don't know.  I just know that the
number issue is all backwards...us using Arabic numerals and Arabs using
Indian numbers.  Hope this helps a little...

V/R

Chris Holman

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5)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From: dwilmsen <dwilmsen at aucegypt.edu>
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

Hi Dil,

I can't answer the question about Spanish numbers.  I suppose they are
more-or-less the same as other numbers used in European languages.  Especially
when they are represented as figures and not words.  At least the ones I know
are, but they are from modern Spanish.

After I learned that the numerals in Arabic are called /arqaam hindiyya/ I
assumed that they were so called because the Arabs adopted them from the
Indians.  The west call their numerals "Arabic" because they adopted them from
the Arabs.  (This is occasionally cause for some amusement around here.)

I seem to recall that this was asserted to me as fact in my Arab history
classes.  Perhaps Hitti would have a windy discussion of it.

A point of interest:  in playing backgammon, the Persian names are used for
some throws of the dice - maybe all of them. I don't play backgammon, so I
can't give you a complete list of the throws.

All the best

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6)
Date: 01 Nov 2000
From: Dil Parkinson <dil at byu.edu>
Subject: Arabic Numerals response

Thanks for the responses.  I searched on Yahoo for this topic, and got the
following interesting site, if anyone wants to actually see a chart of some
of the early forms:

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/math/math_4.html

Dil

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End of Arabic-L: 01 Nov 2000