Arabic-L:LING:Cross-gender usages

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Wed 14 Feb 2001
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject: Cross-gender usages (was Foreigner Talk)
2) Subject: Cross-gender usages (was Foreigner Talk)
3) Subject: Cross-gender usages (was Foreigner Talk)

-------------------------Messages--------------------------------------
1)
Date: 14 Feb 2001
From: noureddine kahlaoui <kahlaoun at hotmail.com>
Subject:  Cross-gender usages

I would like to note that besides the endearment usage of feminine
forms for male individuals and vice versa the second person sg/pl is
addressed in masculine form and the third person pl is also used with
the masculine form for both feminine and masculine in the Tunis
region.
ktebt jwa:b? (2sg, fem./masc.)
did write a letter?
ktebtu: jwa:b. (2pl, fem./masc.)

ketbu: jwa:b. (2pl. fem/masc)
they wrote a letter.

On the other hand, the feminine form is used for the 2d person be it
feminine or masculine in some parts of North East Algeria.

Ktebti: brayya. (2sg, fem./masc.)
You wrote a letter.

Noureddine kahlaoui, Ph.D.
Montreal

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2)
Date: 14 Feb 2001
From: mtarek <mtarek at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:  Cross-gender usages

Hi,

I would like to raise the point addressed by Wahid once more. If the native
speaker uses a masculine form with another native speaker, with whome the
feminine term should be used, this has another extra-linguistic function-
probably sociolinguistic.

In the case of Foreigner Talk, native speakers tend to simplify their language
and the aspects they see difficult to a non-native speakr, only. The
qualitative and quantitative difference between the existance of a certain
structure in native-native talk and Foreigner talk is the important thing for
my purposes.

In the data of pidginization in the Gulf, it was interesting that the use of
the third person masculine singular is prevailing, because it brings to the
surface the issue of gramaticality in FT production.

thanks for everybody
Muhammad

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3)
Date: 14 Feb 2001
From:  "Schub, Michael" <michael.schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:  Cross-gender usages

      In good old Classical Arabic, typically female functions
are expressed by masculine nouns:  Ha:mil  =  pregnant;  Ha:'iD  =
menstruating;  9aju:z  =  beyond childbearing age;  9a:hir  =
harlot;  9a:qir  =  barren; na:hid  =  large breasted; and, conversely, an
eminent geneologist
is  nassa:batun;  a Caliph is  khali:fatun.  God is referred to in
the Qur'an as  9alla:m, even though  9alla:matun  would make
Her  {Him??} much smarter [cf.  Zamachshari ad loc].

      (In Hebrew  Qohelet = al-ja:mi9ah = {Ecclsesiastes} [not to be confused
with
Ecclesiasticus, another Biblical dude]).

      ma9a  s-sala:m  wa-s-sala:mah

                                                 Mike Schub

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End of Arabic-L: 14 Feb 2001