Arabic-L:TRANS:translate/transliterate Allah

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Tue 23 Oct 2001
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1) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
2) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
3) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
4) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
5) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
6) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah
7) Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

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1)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: jolandaguardi <jolandaguardi at iol.it>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

dear lista members,
as Mike Scrube notet in Italy we prefer to translate Allah with God.
Generally scholars here thinks that, as Allah means God, not
translate it would mean that God and Allah were different Gods. And
as God is one, so it's better to write the term in italian. There
also some muslims' groups in Italy that prefer to maintain the term
in arabic just for the same reason.
Best regards,
Jolanda Guardi

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2)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: Jackie Murgida <jmurg at star.net>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

>I have been lurking in the background.
Zouhair, I'm glad this discussion drew you out into the foreground!

>The issue of translating Allah into God is what Nida* classifies as a
mistake of "religious culture."

Thanks for making this point and mentioning the Nida reference. It
highlights the difficulty of translating concepts that don't fully overlap,
and our discussion has highlighted the pitfalls involved when there isn't a
nice, one-to-one correspondence between the two languages.

Best regards,
Jackie

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3)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: zeinab Ibrahim <zeinabib at aucegypt.edu>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

Allah is one of the proper names of God in Islam. /'ilah/ or /rabb/ stands for
God in general, but Allah  is one of his proper names.  In addition, there is
in the Qur'aan,/wa lilah 'al'asmaa' 'alHusna/.  The usage of Allah is
referring particularly to the Islamic faith but the other two terms are used
as well in the Qur'aan to refers mainly to other Gods,the statues, which were
worshipped in the Peninsula before Islam.
Zeinab Ibrahim

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4)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: "Robert R. Ratcliffe" <ratcliffe at tufs.ac.jp>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

>Dear List memebers,
>I have been lurking in the background. The issue of translating
>Allah into God is what Nida* classifies as a mistake of "religious
>culture." The reason for refraining from translating Allah into God
>is not the sacredness of Quranic language as Vito Evola mentioned
>(e.g. ?ar-rasul is simply translated as the prophet in all the
>translation I know of), but has to do with deep religious reasons:
>(i) the fact that in Islam Allah is not part of the Trinity as in
>Christianity, and (ii) the fact that Allah is not the father of
>Jesus Christ. In cognitive linguistic terms, the Idealized Cognitive
>Model for Allah in Islam and for God in Christianity simply do not
>fully overlap as the concepts show different packaging of meaning in
>the two cultures.

An interesting point of view. But I can't really agree. First, words
referring to abstract concepts virtually never FULLY overlap between
different languages. Second, I'm not convinced that the common
English word "God" is necessarily heard and interpreted as a
technical term of Christian theology. The word has Germanic roots and
predates the advent of Christianity in England, and we use it to
refer to related concepts in other religions (the gods of Greek myth,
e.g.). Similarly with "Allah", the word comes from def. art. al- plus
Common Semitic etymon ilah, which predates the appearance of Islam.
Arabic speaking Christians use "Allah" in the translations of the
Bible, etc., and non-Arabic speaking Muslims often use terms derived
from their own languages (Persian Xoda, Indonesian Tuhan, etc.)
rather than "Allah" to express this concept. Although most Arabic
speakers are Muslim and most English speakers are Christian, the
thought-world of a given speech community (the range of concepts that
can be expressed by a given language) is not necessarily restricted
to the conceptual framework of the predominant religion in the
community. For most English speakers, I don't believe the word "God"
necessarily implies Jesus and the Trinity unless it is used in a
specifically Christian context where such a presupposition is
expected.

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5)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From:  dparvaz at unm.edu
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

Dear all,

While I certainly understand the reasons offered for wanting to use
the word "God" as a more user-friendly description of the deity
worshiped by Muslims, I also see Zouhair's rationale for maintaining
the use of "Allah" -- in using the English word, we stand in danger
of glossing over some deep theological differences.

One possible response to Zouhair's invocation of Idealized Cognitive
Models is that ICMs (as G. Lakoff will tell anyone who can't
physically run away) are not for classical categories. There is a not
inconsiderable overlap between the Christian, Muslim, and Jewish
conceptions of God, and this intersection might serve as the set of
"core" (or "universal") attributes. So the creation of the earth,
covenant with Abraham, deliverance of Moses, and so on would often be
attributed to the same agent. Once you start talking about Jesus and
Mohammed, creedal councils, and so forth, you introduce more
peripheral (or "less universal") attributes. To follow the previously
proposed logic, Muslims should always refer to Jesus as "Isa" because
the Jesus of (most of) Christianity would be in violation of the
shahada and the dictum in surat ul-ikhlaS. In Langacker's terms, it
may be a question of profiling and construal.

Another thing to consider (and perhaps more on the other hand) is
more of the social side of things: is the word "Allah" in insider
term like tafseer, sahih, zakat, etc. or an "outsider" term like
"Koran?" It may be that the term is not only in wide currency but
pretty much understood.

Cheers, from the sunny southwest,

Dan.

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6)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: Joan Smith/Kocamahhul <j.smith at ling.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

If 'Allah' is only transliterated when referring to Islam, then it hides
the fact that Arabic-speaking Christians also use the name Allah for God
(I don't know about Arabic-speaking Jews, but I'm guessing they may well
use it too). This perpetuates the impression that some conservative
Christians (that I've met) have that Muslims worship a different god. I
think it contributes to the perceived 'otherness' of both Muslims and
Arabs (of all religions).

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7)
Date:  23 Oct 2001
From: Louis Boumans <louis.boumans at freeler.nl>
Subject: translate/transliterate Allah

Dear list members,

Is it possible to summarise the discussion about the rendering of
Arabic "Allah" in European languages as follows:

- Muslims prefer the word Allah in references to the islamic concept
of the deity
- non-Muslims are divided over "Allah" and "God", depending on their
ideological persuasions.

Or is there also an important Muslim section who would prefer a
translation like "God" in English?

It seems obvious that Muslims view Islam as something really unique,
so for them Allah is not like any other conception of supranatural
power. Atheists and sceptics, on the other hand, are more inclined to
perceive and stress the similarities between religious movements.

Yours, Louis Boumans

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End of Arabic-L:  23 Oct 2001