Arabic-L:LING:li vs 3ind query

Dilworth Parkinson Dilworth_Parkinson at byu.edu
Wed Mar 27 22:25:50 UTC 2002 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Wed 27 Mar 2002
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message to listserv at byu.edu with first line
reading:
           unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject:li vs 3ind query
2) Subject:li vs 3ind query
3) Subject:li vs 3ind query
4) Subject:li vs 3ind query
5) Subject:li vs 3ind query
6) Subject:li vs 3ind query
7) Subject:li vs 3ind query

-------------------------Messages--------------------------------------
1)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:suma99 at att.net
Subject:li vs 3ind query

Use li when the thing in question is not normally bought
or sold, such as "I have a son, I have two eyes, You
have my gratitude", etc.

But use 3inda for: "I have a pen, He has a new car, Do
you have change?", etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:Michel Naggar <mnaggar at sympatico.ca>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

Haroon,

Li definitly indicates possession. LAHU MA FIS SAMAWATI WA MA FIL ARD.

3indi is primarily an article of "place" zarf makan lil shay' al hader.
INDI
KITABUN = I have a book = it is with me now.
If the book were yours  but not with you now  , (hader) , then 3indi
becomes
possessive.
This confirms the saying of a famous Arabic linguist of ten centuries or
so
ago (Ibn al Anbari) to the effect that Arabic speech has to be heard IN
FULL
before it could be correctly understood.
M. Naggar
Montreal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:Dr M Taqi <mtaqi at mofne.gov.bh>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

LI = belongs to someone but not yet in his/her possession.
3IND= belongs to someone and in his/her possession already.
regards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:khorshid <khorshid at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

marHaba,
In standard Arabic, li is used to refer to a part of the whole; whereas
3indi
is used with other meanings of I have;
li aXawaan, li 3aynaan, haatha li.
3indi sayyaara, 3indi maw3id.
Only li is used with non-humans;
aT-Taawila laha arba3 arjul, as-sayyaara laha arba3at abwaab, al-kalb
lahu
bayt.
In Egyptian colloquial Arabic (maybe in some other dialects) 3ind may
replace
li in;
liyya/3andi aXXain, liyya/3andi 3inain.
ik-kalb 3andu bait, aXX.
but not with objects;
iT-Tarabaiza liiha arba3 riglain, etc.
You may detect some colloquial influence in some people's standard Arabic
speech.
Hope this helps.
liyya 3andak haaga Hilwa.
Ahmad Khorshid
Arabic language instructor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:shawky <shawky at aucegypt.edu>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

Dear Haroon,
I would say that "li " is used when you want to express possession that
is
moved from a person to another as in "sallamt lahu ilkitaab" i:e I
handed over
the boook. In other words the book is in his possesssion now. On ther
hand,
3ind as in "3nduhu kitaak"it is already in his possession. May be one
could
classify it as direct possession and indirect possession.
Nehad Shawky
AUC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:aliaa taha <aliaa_anis at hotmail.com>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

Li was originally used for people, i.e.she has relatives, liha aqareb,
and 3ind was used for things, she has money,3indaha noqud.This may still
be true for standard Arabic, but no more for spoken Arabic, because
people use them now interchangeably. I hope I could help. Aliaa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
7)
Date:  27 Mar 2002
From:Waheed Samy <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject:li vs 3ind query

This is a very elaborate issue.

In my experience, which has been with English-speaking learners of
Arabic,
who usually translate 'to have' into Arabic, there's often a problem,
which does not only involve li and 3ind, but also includes ma3a.

Thus on the one hand it is a question of finding the linkages between
'have' and 'li', '3ind', and 'ma3a'.

In addition, as the MSN online dictionary below - for
example - demonstrates, 'have' has many meanings.

Perhaps the approach of trying to find out what the difference between
li and 3ind is not the most productive one.  You might wish instead
to inform your inquirer what to use in a specific instance, instead
of trying to provide a comprehensive account at one go.

At any rate, for starters you might try and see how you would come
up with the Arabic equivalents of the different senses of 'have' below.

It is also true that there are differences between colloquials as
well as differences between colloquial and standard Arabic


(source) http://dictionary.msn.com/find/entry.asp?search=have:

have [(stressed) hav , (unstressed) hv , v ] (past had, past participle
had [(stressed) had , (unstressed) hd , d ], present participle hav.ing,
3rd person present singular has [(stressed) haz , (unstressed) hz , z ])
CORE MEANING: a verb indicating that somebody possesses something,
either materially or as a characteristic or attribute  She has a small
cottage in the country.  He has beautiful eyes.

1.  transitive verb
own something:  to be the owner or possessor of something  I don't have
a lot of money.

2.  transitive verb
possess a characteristic:  to be the possessor of a quality or
characteristic  She had long blond hair.

3.  verb
forms perfect tenses:  used to form the following tenses or aspects: the
present perfect, the past perfect, the future perfect, and the
continuous forms of these (used before the past participle of a verb or
at the beginning of a question, or with "got" to indicate possession)  I
have finished my dinner, thank you.  Have you finished yet?  I have got
a new car.

4.  verb
expresses compulsion:  expresses compulsion, obligation, or necessity
We have to do the economic analysis.

5.  verb
expresses certainty:  expresses conviction or certainty  There just has
to be a solution to the problem.

6.  transitive verb
receive:  to receive or obtain something  I had a Christmas card from
him.

7.  transitive verb
eat something:  to eat or drink something  We have breakfast at eight.

8.  transitive verb
think of something:  to think of something, or hold something in the
mind  Listen! I have a good idea.

9.  transitive verb
experience something:  to experience or undergo something  He went to
the carnival to have a good time.  I had a shock.

10.  transitive verb
be affected by:  to be affected by something, especially something of a
medical nature  I've had the flu for the last week.

11.  transitive verb
engage in something:  to engage or participate in something  We had a
long talk about cars.

12.  transitive verb
arrange something:  to organize or arrange something  We had a party
last week.

13.  transitive verb
arrange for something to be done:  to arrange for somebody to do
something for you or on your behalf  I've just had my hair cut.

14.  transitive verb
tolerate something:  to tolerate or put up with something (usually used
in negative statements)  I won't have such behavior any longer!

15.  transitive verb
receive somebody:  to receive somebody as a guest  We had Mother to stay
over Christmas.

16.  transitive verb
bring a child into existence:  to be the parent of a child, or conceive,
carry, or give birth to a child  She's had three children and now she's
having another one.

17.  transitive verb
put somebody or something somewhere:  to put or place somebody or
something in a particular place  I'll have you two in the front row,
please.  I'll have the desk over there.

18.  transitive verb
undergo something:  to be the victim of an unpleasant action or
experience  I had my car stolen.

19.  transitive verb
make something happen:  to direct or cause somebody to do something, or
cause something to happen  If you see him tomorrow, have him call me.

20.  transitive verb
cheat somebody:  to cheat or outwit somebody (usually passive)  I think
you'll find that you've been had in this deal.

21.  plural noun
or haves privileged people:  people who are rich and privileged,
especially compared with those who are not

Have fun.
Waheed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Arabic-L:  27 Mar 2002
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 8769 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/arabic-l/attachments/20020327/6bf0241d/attachment-0001.bin>

More information about the Arabic-l mailing list