Arabic-L:PEDA:Large Vocabulary responses

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Thu 21 Nov 2002
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1) Subject:Large Vocabulary response
2) Subject:Large Vocabulary response
3) Subject:Large Vocabulary response
4) Subject:Large Vocabulary response

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1)
Date:  21 Nov 2002
From: "Schub, Michael" <michael.schub at trincoll.edu>
Subject:Large Vocabulary response

Dear Z,
       Please see "How Hard is Arabic?" by T. B. Irving in
*Modern Lang. Journal* 41:289--91 (1957); and the Introduction to
*A Word Count of Modern Arabic Prose* by J. M. Landau, NY (1959).  When
does a local foreign word assimilate into and become "Arabic?"
       A major difficulty for learning Arabic is the "D-word:"
DIGLOSSIA.
What is taught in *Al-Kitaab*, e.g., is really "Spoken Modern
Double-Standard Georgetown Arabic," having perhaps a distant
relationship
to Modern Literary Arabic."  (/antunna/ and /hunna/ forms don't deign to
appear.)
       Best wishes,
                                  Mike Schub

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2)
Date:  21 Nov 2002
From:Haidar Moukdad <haidar.moukdad at mail.mcgill.ca>
Subject:Large Vocabulary response

Arabic does not have a larger vocabulary than English. Perhaps what you
are referring to is related to the script, not to the language itself.
It is of course harder for English speakers to learn Arabic, because
they first need to learn the script and tackle the writing system.
  A0Arabic speakers, on the other hand, usually are familiar with the
Latin script and spend all their time A0learning the English language.
  A0
Haidar Moukdad
McGill University

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3)
Date:  21 Nov 2002
From: Aman Attieh <attieh at rice.edu>
Subject:Large Vocabulary response

My response to Munir is that English is believedto have a larger
vocabulary than any other language. I was very surprised when I found
that out because i was under the impression that Arabic has the largest
vocabulary. I believe that this site  support that English possesses
the largest vocabulary.

http://www.athabascau.ca/courses/engl/155/support/
if_english_is_not_your_first
_language.htm

As to Arabs studying a year of English are able to grasp the target
language better than American students studying Arabic for the same
time period may have other explanations than number of vocabulary.
I will confine myself to one explanation which is usage. Arabs learning
English as a foreign language(ESL) do so from books that are  totally
in the target language. These books do not render  grammar explanations
in L1 or provide bilingual list or exercise questions in L1. Moreover,
the instructors are mostly native speakers of English, and they learn
the language in an environment where they are forced to function in
English out of the home environment.  So they have the opportunity to
be more immersed in L1 than their American counterpart.

That is my opinion. In a while I may be able to dig out an empirical
study on language immersion.

Good luck, Aman Attieh

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4)
Date:  21 Nov 2002
From: Jan Hoogland <j.hoogland at let.kun.nl>
Subject:Large Vocabulary response

> I am told that Arabic has a larger vocabulary than English,

theoratically this may be the case, but the actual vocabulary that's
being used, for example in media reporting, uses only a small part of
this theoretical vocabulary. (I'll report on this on my dictionary web
site within a few months, I'll keep the list members informed).
It might be interesting to investigate how many words are being known
by Arabs themselves. And of course you should distinguish between
active (speaking and writing) and passive (reading, listening) command.
Anyone can comment on that?

> and is generally harder to learn than English.  Arabs who have studied
> English
> for a year seem to have a better grasp of the language than Americans
> who have studied Arabic for a year.  Could anyone comment on such
> issues
> from anecdotal experience and/or refer me to studies that have been
> done to
> address them?

The difference in success after one year is probably related to the
difference in teaching materials, or maybe even didactic qualifications
of the teachers. And don't forget the diglossia problem. To teach the
students all four language skills, they will have to learn to cope with
the differences between Fusha and camiyya/darizja.
And do not forget an Arab who starts studying English probably has been
exposed to a lot of English before he actually starts studying the
language, whereas this will (in most cases) not be applicable to a
non-arabophone who starts to study Arabic.
These are just a few comments, based on experience, not on scientific
research.

Jan Hoogland

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End of Arabic-L:  21 Nov 2002