Arabic-L:LING:spelling of 800

[Dilworth Parkinson]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic-L: Tue 22 Apr 2008
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
[To post messages to the list, send them to arabic-l at byu.edu]
[To unsubscribe, send message from same address you subscribed from to
listserv at byu.edu with first line reading:
            unsubscribe arabic-l                                      ]

-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:spelling of 800
2) Subject:original post with transliteration
3) Subject:spelling of 800
4) Subject:spelling of 800
-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 22 Apr 2008
From:Ernest McCarus <enm at umich.edu>
Subject:spelling of 800

Dear Ms. Sakaedani:

I agree with you: the construction is
thamaanii mi'atin or, in pause form, thamaanii mi'ah.

/mi'ah/ is often spelled with an 'alif between the miim and the hamza,  
as if it were maa'ah.
Unfortunately, my e-mail software cannot read your Arabic script nor  
can it read my own Window's Arabic script.

Ernest McCarus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
Date: 22 Apr 2008
From:"Haruko SAKAEDANI" <harukos at tufs.ac.jp>
Subject:Haruko's original post

[I have run the original post through a filter that changes the Arabic  
font to DT transliteration (you can see details of that one to one  
system at arabiCorpus.byu.edu).  Even if the details aren't clear, you  
should be able to hone in on the point here, which is the presence or  
absence of the 'y' or yaa' on the end of the form for 'eight'.  The  
point is that the 'correct' form, with the 'y', is much less common  
than the 'incorrect' form, without it--dil]

How do you spell 800?

i was thinking that 800 is "thamaanii mi'ah" but there are many  
websites where they spell 800 as "thamaani mi'ah."
i searched VmAny mYQ,  VmAn mYQ, and so on last week by Google.
The followings are the results.

VmAny mYQ = 839
VmAn mYQ = 2670

58 = VmAnymYQ
VmAnmYQ = 8730

VmAny mAYQ = 1160
6420 = VmAn mAYQ

  202 = VmAnymAYQ
  64200 = VmAnmAYQ

A lot of the websites are spelling not VmAny but VmAn !
Why?
VmAn must be VmAny before muDaaf ilay-hi.

Thank you.
Haruko

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
Date: 22 Apr 2008
From:Dil Parkinson
Subject:spelling of 800

Ryding (2005) only gives VmAny mYQ and VmAnymYQ (i.e. both with the  
'y').  The results from arabiCorpus, however, agree with your google  
results:  the forms with 'y' are exceedingly rare, compared with the  
forms without them.  Here are the data, in script and then in DT  
transliteration:

الثمانمائة	80
ثمانمائة	39
ثمانمئة	33
وثمانمائة	25
وثمانمئة	24
الثمانمئة	9
بثمانمئة	5
لثمانمائة	2
بثمانمائة	2
ثماني مئة	2
وثمانمائه	1
ثماني مائة	1

AlVmAnmAYQ	80
VmAnmAYQ	39
VmAnmYQ	33
wVmAnmAYQ	25
wVmAnmYQ	24
AlVmAnmYQ	9
bVmAnmYQ	5
lVmAnmAYQ	2
bVmAnmAYQ	2
VmAny mYQ	2
wVmAnmAYh	1
VmAny mAYQ	1

These results include many from Al-Ahram and Al-Hayat and other  
newspapers from throughout the Arab World, which are heavily 'gone  
over' by professional correctors, and there are only 3 examples with  
the 'y' out of over 200 examples.  It seems facile to say that this is  
just colloquial influence since the 'correctors' consistently root  
that out whenever they want.  Is it possible that speakers now see  
this as a frozen form, and NOT an example of a defective noun/ 
adjective as the first term of a construct state (which in other cases  
would require the presence of the 'y')?
dil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Date: 22 Apr 2008
From:Waheed Samy <wasamy at UMICH.EDU>
Subject:spelling of 800

For three to nine hundred:
خَمسٌ + مئة > خَمسُمئةٍٍ
سِتٌّ + مئة > سِتُّمئةٍٍ
سَبعٌ + مئة > سَبعُمئةٍٍ
ثمانٍٍ + مئة > ثمانيمئة

However, as you point out, there are variations (at least in Egypt).

The number 100 itself is sometimes written مئة, and sometimes  
مائة.

Waheed

[in DT transliteration:]

For three to nine hundred:
xamsU + mYQ > xamsumYQI
sit~U + mYQ > situ~mYQI
sabcU + mYQ > sabcumYQI
VmAnI + mYQ > VmAnymYQ

However, as you point out, there are variations (at least in Egypt).

The number 100 itself is sometimes written mYQ, and sometimes mAYQ.

Waheed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Arabic-L:  22 Apr 2008
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/arabic-l/attachments/20080422/42951546/attachment.htm>