Arabic-L:LING:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 25 Jun 2012
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1) Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules
2) Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules
3) Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules
4) Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules
5) Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

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1)
Date: 25 Jun 2012
From: saracphillips at GMAIL.COM
Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

> I need a reliable resource on whether
> الولد أسود الشعر
> or
> الولد الأسود الشعر
> is correct.

For what it's worth, we discussed this in a recent grammar class I
took.  The professor was Bruce Fudge, who specializes in Medieval
Arabic.  He said that classically, الولد أسود الشعر was
the only correct construction, but that now the second one has
basically taken over and it is considered acceptable in Modern
Arabic.  He might know of some resources to support that description.

-Sara

Sara Phillips-Bourass
Graduate Student
Department of Linguistics
The Ohio State University

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2)
Date: 25 Jun 2012
From: enm at UMICH.EDU
Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

Dear Nesrine,

Both expressions are correct: the first one is a subject and predicate,
'The boy is black-haired' ('The boy has black hair'), and the second is a
noun modified by an attributive adjective idafa, 'the black-haired boy'.

This "adjective idafa" is treated in Abboud and McCarus, ELEMENTARY MODERN
STANDARD ARABIC, Cambridge University Press, Part 1, pages 560 - 561.

best wishes,

Ernest

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3)
Date: 25 Jun 2012
From:  mohammed.jiyad at YAHOO.COM
Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

Both are correct. However, the first is a sentence but the second is a phrase.
Shukran.
Mohammed Jiyad

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4)
Date: 25 Jun 2012
From:  stateofmind1967 at YAHOO.COM
Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

The first one is when you're trying to describe the boy as having
black hair. The second one must be followed by something;

الولد الاسود الشعر جاري.

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4)
Date: 25 Jun 2012
From: rsricks at GMAIL.COM
Subject:Adjective Idaafa Definiteness Rules

Ryding's grammar pages 221–223 has analysis of the "false"/adjectival
Idaafa. Prescriptively, the adjective should agree with the noun in
definiteness, number, case, and gender. In practice, there may be
exceptions.

Both of the examples you give are possible.

الولد أسود الشعر
can be read as an equational sentence: "The boy is black-haired."

الولد الأسود الشعر
is a noun + adjectival construct: "The black-haired boy…"


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End of Arabic-L: 25 Jun 2012