summary of 2012 language names

[Alessandro Jaker]

Hi Bill,

I don't know much about what seems to be a very complicated issue, but I
can vouch for Jim in that the changes he made to the t-shirt are based on
what was discussed and agreed upon at this year's Dene Languages Conference
in Bellingham, WA, and there was at least one "Nadot'en" speaker who
insisted on adding "Nadot'en" and several other speakers who thought
"Babine" was offensive.  I don't have any solution to this problem except
perhaps we need to invite more speakers to next year's conference?

Alex

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Bill Poser <billposer2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dakelh makes no sense as the English name for Carrier for the simple
> reason that the voiceless lateral fricative is not an English speech sound
> and that <lh> is uninterpretable as an English spelling. Furthermore, it
> causes confusion because speakers of Carrier and of Babine call themselves
> and their languages Dakelh but speakers of Witsuwit'en do not. This is why
> the First People's map of BC languages erroneously shows  W as one language
> and Dakelh as another, with the latter occupying the territory of Carrier
> proper plus Babine. Similarly, I see no reason to add still further to the
> confusion by changing Babine-Witwuwit'en to Nadot'en-Witsuwit'en. Indeed,
> the Lake Babine Band has not only kept the name "Babine" but has expressed
> a liking for it on the grounds that non-natives know their lake as Babine
> Lake with the result that calling the people "Babine" serves to associate
> the people with their territory.  The other major group of Babine speakers,
> at Takla Lake, refer to their language in English as "Carrier". Although
> they are aware that their language is the same as the Lake Babine language,
> they do not call it Nadot'en.
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:22 AM, James Kari <jmkari at alaska.edu> wrote:
>
>> Thanks to everyone for the quick & lively response. I made four suggested
>> changes.
>> Also attached is the current Na-Dene languages t-shirt, printed here in
>> Fairbanks.
>> the language names on that too can be modified, some time next year.
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Dagmar Jung <djung at uni-koeln.de> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for an update on language names, that's indeed very useful!
>>>
>>> A comment about renaming Beaver: the name you have right now on the map
>>> commonly refers to the Dene Tha' First nation in NW Alberta that speaks
>>> South Slavey.
>>>
>>> For the majority of Beaver-speaking First Nations the name Dane-*z*aa
>>> seems to be the preferred one (cf. also the Dane-*z*aa language
>>> authority in Fort St. John that represents most BC communities that speak
>>> dialects of this language).
>>>
>>> The underline of the fricative marks a range of possible pronounciations
>>> according to the variety/speaker: postdental, interdental, or alveolar. The
>>> first vowel of Dane is sometimes seen by speakers as a clear demarcation to
>>> Dene/Slavey.
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful & best wishes,
>>>
>>> Dagmar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19.12.12 20:32, James Kari wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> I have been meaning to update my map "Distribution of Na-Dene
>>> Languages" to show the language name changes that were discussed and
>>> suggested during the August (now renamed) Dene Languages Conference.
>>>
>>> The box lists the changes
>>> comments  are appreciated of course
>>> Happy Holidays!
>>> Jim kari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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