[ykboo] Tonight's Talking Earth

[Aron Faegre]

Robert and Tony,

As another shy person, who first posted a notice of the book on this site, could I
ask you to expand on your comments a little further:

Rubin's book was an attempt to create a holistic look at life in the lower Columbia
during the 30 years prior to and after Lewis and Clark -- 1770 to 1830.  I live on
the shores of this same water and have often wondered what a life on the river was
like back then.  You have attacked the KBOO blurb for errors in detail and/or
poetic use of language, and Rick for personal gaffes, but as to the overall book,
has anyone else successfully attempted the same subject?  Seriously, is there a
better book to teach from for that period?

Also, 2004-5 is fast approaching and there will be many people visiting from across
the country, trying to understand that era in the history of the northwest.
Hopefully someone will provide a readily accessible, easily readable presentation.
Is Rubin's book really as bad as you say?  By the way, I didn't see anything in the
book that claimed that the Chinook are extinct?  The book does portray in detail
how the whites back then largely destroyed a way of life for a very large community
that existed at that time.  You are both obviously very knowledgeable in this
subject -- is his whole approach or thesis wrong?  Or is there another issue here?

Aron Faegre

Robert Moore wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have "lurked" on this list since shortly after its inception, but have
> never before spoken up, being an excessively shy person, as will become
> clear.
>
> Seriously, having just read Tony Johnson's excellent letter(s), I want to
> register my enthusiastic agreement with everything he said.  I have no
> Native ancestors (so far as I know), but I have since the early 1980s done
> linguistic and ethnographic fieldwork with many people of Chinookan
> descent--fluent Chinookan speakers, semi-fluent ones (by their own
> estimation, not mine), and many others, at Warm Springs, Yakama, and
> elsewhere in the region.  I have always valued their friendship, to say
> nothing of their extraordinary forebearance in the face of my many gaffes
> and stumbles, linguistic and otherwise--and I have never gotten the
> impression that any of them were "extinct."  Quite the contrary.
>
> I would never describe these people as "wealthy, plump and sleek," and I
> never met anybody who "drank sea lion oil straight," whatever that might
> mean.  This is really about as unseemly as it gets, in my opinion.
>
> Subscribers to this list should know (if they don't already) that Rick
> Rubin has been "operating" for a long time in the Portland area, much to
> the infuriation of me and many others (Native and non-Native) who care, and
> actually know something about, the Indian people of the area; this latest
> is only one in a long series of (self-published) books, each one seemingly
> more obnoxious, misleading, and ignorant than the last.  And now apparently
> he is making public appearances where he sometimes has the misfortune to
> meet people face to face whom he has declared "extinct."  Good enough for
> him, I say, though silence--radio and otherwise--would be far preferable.
> It is dismaying to hear that KBOO has given him a "platform" to air his
> views, but then KBOO, while mostly well-intentioned, has perhaps never been
> accused of being a citadel of worldly sophistication, political or
> otherwise.  (Memo to the station manager: more conspiracy theories,
> please!).
>
> Not that infuriating me, or Tony Johnson's aunties, was probably ever
> Rubin's intention--becoming "wealthy, plump and sleek" is probably more
> like it.  I really don't know what he is up to, but if that's his plan,
> let's none of us do anything to help him.  He is, to borrow a lexical item
> from a language that contributed significantly (though far less than 55%)
> to our beloved Chinook Wawa, a _poseur_, at best--_pas serieux_.
>
> For reference purposes I append below a copy of Tony Johnson's fine message
> of earlier today, as well as the repellent blurbology that accompanied
> KBOO's announcement of the 6 December appearance (apologies for this last
> item).  Thanks for "list[en]ing," and keep up the good work.
>
> Klahawya,
>
> Robert Moore
>
> Robert E. Moore
> Department of Anthropology
> New York University
> 25 Waverly Place
> New York, NY    10003
>
> 212-998-8559 (tel)
> 212-995-4014 (fax)
> <rem10 at is5.nyu.edu> email
>
> >Delivered-To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Date:         Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:02:51 -0800
> >Reply-To: Tony Johnson <tony.johnson at GRANDRONDE.ORG>
> >Sender: The Chinook List <CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> >From: Tony Johnson <tony.johnson at GRANDRONDE.ORG>
> >Subject:      [ykboo] Tonight's Talking Earth-- Monday 12/6 KBOO : 10 PM (fwd)
>               -Reply
> >Comments: To: peterweb at TELEPORT.COM
> >To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>
> >Kanawi-Laksta,
> >
> >Nayka na dret sick tEmtEm...I pushed the wrong button and sent this
> >before I intended.
> >
> >Forgive me but, this man, his publicity, and his book are really
> >starting to burn my butt (for lack of a better expression).
> >
> >For those of you who don't know me let me qualify my statements.  I am a
> >Chinook Indian.  I am Kathlamet, Lower Chinook and Clatsop.  My great
> >great gradmother was born in her Kathlamet speaking village just East of
> >Gray's river.  Her husband, my great great grandfather, was born on the
> >"Wallicut" River.  They lived in my grandma's village.  Their daughter,
> >my father's grandmother, was born there also.  She later moved with many
> >of our people to a still occupied village at Bat Center, WA  (in
> >Shoalwater Bay, Chinook country).  My grandfather was born in that
> >village.  Both my father and I were born just a few miles down the Bay
> >from there in South Bend, WA.
> >
> >There are many Chinooks living today.  We signed treaties in 1853.  We
> >were party to a treaty in 1850 (we wouldn't sign because it asked us to
> >move to the Quinault reservation).  We all fished and hunted as Indians
> >until 1973 when the boldt desicion took away our rights (we are not a
> >treaty tribe).  Also, we own over 50% of the Quinault reservation's
> >land.  We still have a large fleet of gillnetters, and by the way I am
> >here in Grand Ronde, OR teaching a language made up of 55%of our old
> >Chinook language.  We still have traditional weavers, gatherers, etc.
> >
> >All this is to say that this man spent over 10 years reading books about
> >Chinooks, and it seems that he primarilly learned the misinformation
> >that tends to fill them.  I don't believe he ever talked to any Indians
> >when he wrote this book.  To write this book without speaking to my
> >people, Grand Ronde (Clackamas), Warm Springs(Wasco) and Yakima(Wishxam)
> >is foolish.
> >
> >One other thing.  He just did a speaking engagment at the Historical
> >Society in my home town South Bend, WA.  While there my aunites and
> >uncles came from our village of Bay Center.  He actually argued with
> >them about out tribe being extinct.?!?!  These are women and men who are
> >traditional fishernmen and basket makers, and all of them were given
> >land on the Quinault reservation as Chinook Indians.
> >
> >Forgive my ranting, but someone needs to stop people from perpetuating
> >old stereotypes and misinformed ideas.
> >
> >I have more to say, but I have got to go.  LaXayEm pi hayu mersi pus
> >hayu kEmtEks qhata na tiki wawa.
> >
> >Tony A. Johnson, Chinook
> >Grand Ronde, OR
> >
> >>>> peter webster <peterweb at TELEPORT.COM> 12/06/99 02:30am >>>
> >>X-From_: owner-ykboo at holodoc.peak.org Mon Dec 06 21:53:34 1999
> >>Delivered-To: peterweb at teleport.com
> >>Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:48:00 -0800 (PST)
> >>From: MichaelP <papadop at peak.org>
> >>X-Sender: papadop at kira
> >>To: Yaney_Maciver at ex.cv.hp.com, cherie <cblackfeather at uswest.net>,
> >>        crowx4 at hotmail.com, ingramm at ccmail.orst.edu,
> >>        Jessica Lamb <jessl at caclbca.org>, weaverr at ucs.orst.edu,
> >ykboo at peak.org
> >>Subject: [ykboo] Tonight's Talking Earth-- Monday 12/6 KBOO : 10 PM
> >(fwd)
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Sender: owner-ykboo at peak.org
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>
> >>Subject: Tonight's Talking Earth-- Monday 12/6 KBOO 90.7 FM,92.7FM,
> >>100.7FM 10 PM
> >>
> >>Talking Earth Monday Night December 6, 1999
> >>Naked Against the Rain and the craft of Enduring and Beautiful Books
> >with
> >>Rick Rubin and John Laursen
> >>
> >>
> >> "Once there was a people so wealthy, plump and sleek that they drank
> >sea
> >>lion oil straight and didn't have to look for food all winter long.
> >They
> >>danced and sang and recited stories instead.  These people's upriver
> >>neighbors bent under ninety-pound packs.  These people just carried
> >their big
> >>boat down to their river, piled in several tons of trade goods--
> >cranberry
> >>preserved, smoked salmon, dried clams, six or seven kinds of
> >vegetables, fur
> >>robes, and arrow-proof armor-- and paddled a hundred miles or so up the
> >river
> >>to trade.
> >>
> >>"They were not just rich but highly intelligent and comparatively sane.
> >>Their numerous villages of fancifully decorated houses lined the shores
> >of
> >>the mighty river, from which they drew most of their living and much of
> >their
> >>pleasure.  That river-- we call it the Columbia-- was all they ever
> >wanted.
> >>It provided them with more than they could use.  Fish in profusion swim
> >up
> >>the river-- they called it Wimhl-- salmon, sturgeon, smelt and lamprey
> >came,
> >>each in its season, to offer their flesh to the people"
> >>
> >>                      from "Naked Against the Rain," by Rick Rubin,
> >>                        Press-22 Books, 1999
> >>
> >>
> >>Rick Rubin,  in the kind of madness that sometimes seizes writers,
> >needed to
> >>do research to pin down some details about the way of life of the
> >people of
> >>Portland and the lower Columbia River for the second chapter of a book
> >he
> >>was writing, and ended up spending more than ten years researching the
> >>Chinook.
> >>
> >>There is little left of Chinook culture now other than evocative
> >artifact and
> >>a scattered written  record compiled by whites, largely in diaries and
> >>letters, and articles in archaeological and historical journals,
> >student
> >>papers, magazines and newspapers. Until Naked Against the Rain, only a
> >few
> >>books were published that tried to pull all the historical record
> >together,
> >>and those few books were marred by cultural prejudice and a dense
> >academic
> >>prose.
> >>
> >>Naked Against the Rain combines scholarship and accessability in a
> >>beautifully written book that opens  the window on a way of life and a
> >people
> >>which drew on the wealth of the river to make them wealthy, a people
> >who
> >>managed their riches so well that they remained wealthy for thousands
> >of
> >>years.
> >>
> >>Naked Against the Rain is a book that will endure, but, in the kind of
> >>madness endemic to this country's literary life, Rick spent years
> >trying to
> >>find a publisher until, determined to get it out, he published it
> >himself.
> >>Like many other Northwest writers whose aim is to produce enduring
> >>literature,  Rick turned to John Laursen, master book designer, for
> >help in
> >>designing and producing.   John joins Rick at 10 P.M. tonight on KBOO
> >to talk
> >>with Barbara LaMorticella about the Chinook, and about process
> >producing
> >>"Naked in the Rain."
> >>
> >>The end of a century which is perilously close to extincting the
> >biological
> >>miracles of the salmon and the smelt seems a good time to get a fresh
> >take on
> >>our forerunners on the Columbia, and Rick's labor of love will be read
> >and
> >>referred to for many years to come.