Chinook and the Ethnologue

Fri Feb 1 01:05:42 UTC 2002

Yeah, don't get me wrong.  The Ethnologue is an invaluable resource.
It's just that some folks seem to take what the Ethnologue says as
gospel truth, and it just ain't always so.  In many cases (perhaps even
most cases, I really don't know for sure), it's correct, or about as
close to correct as one can expect.  In some cases one could nitpick
about what they say, but what they do say is at least one viable
interpretation of the facts, so that's probably OK too.  In a few cases,
such as what they say about Chinook, it's just dead wrong.  And in some
cases what they say seems to represent what one might call "political
posturing".  That is to say, they take a position (usually one advocated
by an SIL member) that no one else (that is to say, no one not connected
with SIL) would agree with, and they present this as if there were no
dissenting opinions.  Sometimes these positions seem to be taken more in
conformity with some local sociopolitical ideology than with actual
linguistic fact.  And then, of course, there are the cases where no one
really knows for sure what's going on, so they're basically just
guessing.  So, like I said, it is an invaluable resource since no one
else has put together all of this kind of information in one place.  But
it is, nevertheless, a resource that must be used judiciously.  One
shouldn't ignore what they say, but one should keep a critical eye out.

Liland Brajant Ros' wrote:
>
> >From: Tom Larsen <bvtl at ODIN.PDX.EDU>
> >Reply-To: Tom Larsen <bvtl at ODIN.PDX.EDU>
> >To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> >Subject: Re: Tilicum
> >Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:07:20 -0800
> >
> >Well, this is just another example of how you can't trust everything you
> >read in Ethnologue.  Kiksht is not Lower Chinook, it's another name
> >(actually the native name, if I'm not mistaken) for Upper Chinook.  It
> >is my understanding that there are no speakers left of any kind of Lower
> >Chinook ("Shoalwater", Clatsop). Tony Johnson would probably know more
> >about this than I would, though. I note in the snippets from the
> >Ethnologue that were cited that they have also classed Clackamas as
> >Lower Chinook.  This is also incorrect.  Clackamas was a variety of
> >Kiksht (Upper Chinook).
>
> Liland: So I was apparently right in my previous statement about the
> extinction of Lower Chinook.
>
> I quite agree the Ethnologue is not reliable, however, it does provide
> *some* information (even if incorrect) about virtually every documented
> living or recently extinct language in the world, and a point from which to
> start correcting, arguing, or nitpicking.
>
> Liland (lilEnd)
> >
> >--
> >Tom Larsen
> >
> >Monographic Cataloging Assistant
> >Branford Price Millar Library
> >Portland State University
> >P.O. Box 1151
> >Portland, OR 97207-1151
> >
> >phone: 503-725-8179
> >fax:   503-725-5799
> >
> >email: larsent at pdx.edu
> >
> >
> >Liland Brajant Ros' wrote:
> > >
> > > >From: Andy Horton <BMLSS at compuserve.com>
> > > >...
> > > >Sometimes, the etymon can only be intelligently guessed at
> >and this applies
> > > >to the toponymy of Saxon place names in England, and even
> >more to the
> > > >earlier Celtic names, as there were no written records.
> > > >
> > > >I assume that this also applies to the Wakashan Languages and
> >where the
> > > >words have been used in Chinook, it might not be possible to
> >prove which
> > > >language/tribe they came from, but some experts or
> >enthusisasts might have
> > > >a good idea from circumstantial evidence, hence the trawl.
> > >
> > > Sounds right to me except that Chinook is not Wakashan. At
> >least, I've never
> > > seen it so classified.
> > >
> > > Nootkan is Wakashan, and there are a fair number of important
> >words of
> > > Nootkan origin in the Chinook Jargon (holdovers, I gather the
> >prevailing
> > > scholarly opinion is, from a Nootkan-based Jargon of the
> >pre-1800 period),
> > > but "tIlEqEm" or however it's spelt nowadays is not one of
> >them, it's
> > > Chinook(an). Which is usually classified as a branch of
> >Penutian.
> > >
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=1728 (Penutian
> >family tree,
> > > per Ethnologue; much disputed.)
> > >
> > > Yesterday I said I thought the Chinookan languages (as
> >distinct from the
> > > Jargon) were extinct, but now I see that the Ethnologue shows
> >12 speakers in
> > > 1996 for Lower Chinook (the variety that provided the main
> >basis for the
> > > Jargon) and 69 (including 7 monolinguals!) in 1990 for
> >Wasco-Wishram or
> > > Upper Chinook (related). Here are the relevant entries and
> >links from the
> > > Ethnologue:
> > >
> > > CHINOOK [CHH] 12 speakers of Kiksht dialect (1996), out of a
> >possible
> > > population of 300 (1977 SIL).  Lower Columbia River, Oregon
> >and Washington.
> > > Alternate names: LOWER CHINOOK.  Dialects: KLATSOP (TLATSOP),
> >CLACKAMA,
> > > KIKSHT.  Classification: Penutian, Chinookan.  Nearly extinct.
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=CHH
> > >
> > > Chinook Jargon:
> > >      Under USA:
> > > CHINOOK WAWA [CRW] 17 speakers in USA (1990 census).  Formerly
> >used along
> > > the Pacific coast from Oregon to Alaska. All speakers are
> >probably now
> > > scattered. Alternate names: CHINOOK JARGON, CHINOOK PIDGIN,
> >TSINUK WAWA.
> > > Classification: Pidgin, Amerindian.  Nearly extinct.
> > >      Under Canada:
> > > CHINOOK WAWA [CRW]  Population total both countries 100
> >speakers, all over
> > > 50 years old (1962 Chafe).  Alternate names: CHINOOK JARGON,
> >CHINOOK PIDGIN.
> > >   Classification: Pidgin, Amerindian.  Nearly extinct.
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=CRW
> > >
> > > WASCO-WISHRAM [WAC] 69 speakers including 7 monolinguals (1990
> >census), out
> > > of a possible population of 750 (1977 SIL).  North central
> >Oregon, south
> > > central Washington. Alternate names: UPPER CHINOOK.
> >Classification:
> > > Penutian, Chinookan.  Nearly extinct.
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=WAC
> > >
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=1831 (Wakashan
> >family tree,
> > > per Ethnologue; generally accepted, I think)
> > >
> > > NOOTKA [NOO] 590 mother tongue speakers (1998 Statistics
> >Canada), out of
> > > 3,500 population (1977 SIL). Nitinat has about 30 speakers
> >(1991 M. Dale
> > > Kinkade).  Southwestern British Columbia, Nitinat along
> >Pacific side of
> > > Vancouver Island and on Nitinat Lake. Alternate names: NUTKA,
> >NUUCHAHNULTH.
> > > Dialects: NITINAT (NITINAHT), NOOTKA.  Classification:
> >Wakashan, Southern.
> > > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=NOO
> > >
> > > Cheers yourself!
> > >
> > > lilEnd
> > >
> > >
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--
Tom Larsen

Monographic Cataloging Assistant
Branford Price Millar Library
Portland State University
P.O. Box 1151
Portland, OR 97207-1151

phone: 503-725-8179
fax:   503-725-5799

email: larsent at pdx.edu