tyee / tia

[hzenk at PDX.EDU]

Alan,

Yes, I suppose that the term could have been borrowed into Chinookan from CJ.
If it was, though, it apparently later dropped out of Chinookan usage, as the
word for chief as later recorded is the one Tony cites, and neither Boas nor
anyone else records anything like tia.  Things like that do happen, of course.
As with wapato, it may be that Lewis and Clark themselves are our best
authority that the word was "really" Chinookan.  Henry

Quoting "Alan H. Hartley" <ahartley at D.UMN.EDU>:

> Thanks, Henry.
>
> What if, instead of "in Chinookan the term is tia" we were to read "the
> term was borrowed into Chinookan [from CJ from Nootkan tayi] as taye"?
> The phrase "ti-a, co-mo-shack which is Chief beads" as Dell has parsed
> it certainly gives one pause (and note that Clark writes ti-â
> [a-circumflex] might suggest [a] rather than [e]), but against that is
> Clark's (and Lewis's) gloss 'Chief(s) beads'. Or we might be dealing
> with two  near homographs of tia, one [tia] meaning 'PL/prefix-', the
> other [taye] meaning 'chief', though, given L&C's glosses, that seems
> unlikely. (The first two quotes below seem especially clear.)
>
> we were visited by our near neighbours, Chief or Tiá, Co-mo-wool..and
> six Clatsops. [3 Jan 06 ML 6.162]
>
> I was visited by Tia Shâh-hâr-wâr-cap and eleven of his [Cathlamet]
> nation in one large canoe [10 Jan 06 ML 6.192]
>
> These coarse blue beads are their f[av]orite merchandiz, and are called
> by them tia Commáshuck´ or Chiefs beads. [17 Jan 06 ML 6.215]
>
> Alan
>
> > That might explain a Chinookan pronunciation of Jargon (from Nootkan) tayi,
> but
> > it won't explain why Silverstein and Moore (cited by Moulton as authority
> for
> > the Chinookan notes) would claim that there were two words, Jargon tayi
> and
> > Chinookan tia (if indeed they DID claim that, as opposed to an editor
> somehow
> > garbling things here; Rob Moore, are you still lurking out there?).  For
> the LC
> > journal entry appearing in Moulton v. 6 p. 163, "our near neighbour Chief
> (or
> > tia)," a note on p. 164 reads:  "in Chinookan the term is tia [italicized].
>  In
> > the Chinook jargon it is tayi [italicized], which is borrowed from the
> Nooktan
> > word ta:yi: [ital.]; all mean 'chief'."  I wrote to Dell Hymes some time
> ago
> > about this:  he finds no word like tia in any of his Chinookan sources;
> > moreover, "it does not look like a Chinookan noun at all."  On the other
> hand,
> > the LC journal entry in Moulton v. 6 p. 81, "ti-a, co-mo-shack which Chief
> > beads," could be perfectly OK Chinookan, granting only that the original
> > meaning was "his beads" (he being the chief?).  A note on p. 82 interprets
> the
> > Chinookan as tiaq'musakS [italicized; stress over u; S = shibilant].
> Hymes
> > parses:
> >
> > t-ia-q'mus-akS
> > PL/prefix-his-bead-PL/suffix
>