Salish idiom parallel to Chinook Jargon idiom

[Scott Tyler]

Hi Just a quick note.
 a similarity exists for some of Makah and Chinook
in terms of the concept of creater.
in Chinook It was called Sahali Tyee = the Above Chief
and in Makah It was called
hita?aciLatX  chabat' = Above dwelling Chief
the order or syntax appears the same for both.
This I believe is totally of Native origin.
The Chief Above donned a garb of wings and feathers and appeared as the 
Thunderbir.  He came down wearing his belt of Sea Serpents.  With His belt 
he would kill the Whale and carry it to the mountain to be consumed.
Makah later developed the term
duuwiiqs hita?aciLatX  = Father from above
this may correlate with the Salish
shaQ siab debad = Father Above.
Scott


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Robertson" <ddr11 at UVIC.CA>
To: <CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: Salish idiom parallel to Chinook Jargon idiom


> Hi and apologies for not posting much lately!  I've got a busy life 
> writing
> a dissertation, working full-time, and raising an ever-larger family.
>
> But I found some time for reading Paul Kroeber's book "The Salish Language
> Family: Reconstructing Syntax".  There I notice a Lushootseed idiom that's
> directly parallel to a universal Chinook Jargon one.  Without bothering to
> explain weird listserv approximations of funky Lushootseed symbols, I'll
> reproduce it in (1):
>
> p'atl'atl' dxw7al dEgwi gwE xwEtl'SadEd
> worthless  to     you   if  I-break-a-leg   [glosses are mine]
> "It doesn't matter to you if I break a leg" (from Hess 1995:71)
>
> The first four words have a pretty much word-for-word translation in 
> Jargon.
> I'll give it here in the "Kamloops Wawa" variety in (2):
>
> kaltash   kopa maika pus...
> worthless to   you   if...
> "It doesn't matter to you if..."
>
> An interesting question is whether this idiom existed first in Salish, and
> maybe other Pacific NW languages, or was instead borrowed from Jargon.  I
> tend to suspect the former.  Seems to me I noticed another 
> Jargon-paralleled
> idiom in Kroeber this week, the famous "good if" imperative.  I'll hunt 
> for it.
>
> By the way, you speakers of a certain Jargon variety might have noticed 
> the
> first word in Lushootseed is mighty close to your word for "bunk", and I
> don't mean a bed.
>
> --Dave R
>
> To respond to the CHINOOK list, click 'REPLY ALL'.  To respond privately 
> to the sender of a message, click 'REPLY'.  Hayu masi! 

To respond to the CHINOOK list, click 'REPLY ALL'.  To respond privately to the sender of a message, click 'REPLY'.  Hayu masi!