[Corpora-List] Can corpora help to distinguish a dialect and a language?

[Bryar Family]

Let me suggest the following: 

Until very recently written languages are easier to define because (unlike
dialects) there is usually both a broadly shared vocabulary, and a handful
of canonical works that formed the basis of a standardized syntax and (in
alphabetical languages) a spelling system. Since written languages are
"taught" formally rather than learned by osmosis teachers of these written
languages have been able to impose a narrowly defined standardized form and
penalize those who would deviate from that form. 

By contrast, oral languages are almost all dialects to some extent because
they can deviate from any standard by incorporating jargon and "informal"
terms, can deviate from commonly recognized formal syntax rules, and can
employ alternative pronunciation systems without social penalty as long as
these deviations are recognized and accepted by one's immediate community. 

Perhaps this distinction is becoming outmoded as written language becomes
more informalized in today's instant messaging and email environments?  

Jack Bryar
Grafton, VT 05146
Office: 802-843-6033



-----Original Message-----
From: corpora-bounces at uib.no [mailto:corpora-bounces at uib.no] On Behalf Of
Angus B. Grieve-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:25 PM
To: CORPORA at uib.no
Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Can corpora help to distinguish a dialect and a
language?


CRuehlemann at aol.com wrote:
> It is interesting to see how a serious question sparks a funny
> discussion, which is somewhat carnivalesque even, featuring soldiers, 
> rabbis, schmucks, dead dogs and what have you galore. On a more sober 
> note one might return to the original question (Can corpora help 
> distinguish dialect and a language?) and say yes, to an extent, 
> provided they have been carefully marked up  for social categories.
    I think you're confused by the ambiguity in English indefinites.  
When Yuri asked his question, he knew perfectly well that it was 
possible to use corpora to distinguish two language varieties, whether 
or not you label one as "a dialect" and the other as "a language."  We 
all agree that you can.  (Don't we?)  Yuri was asking whether, given a 
language variety, you can use corpora to label it as "a dialect" or "a 
language."  At this point, we haven't even settled on the question of 
whether there's any language-internal criteria for calling something "a 
dialect" or "a language."

-- 
				-Angus B. Grieve-Smith
				grvsmth at panix.com


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