ELL: Minority languages in SE Asia and more

endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
Tue Jul 13 13:53:00 UTC 1999


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From: tsc_msea at SIL.ORG
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:53:00 -0400
To: <endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au>
Subject: ELL: Minority languages in SE Asia and more
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     Dear ELL,

     I know many of you are interested in minority languages in SE Asia.
          The Linguistics Department at Payap University has just completed
          its
	       latest volume of Working Papers. I include the notice
          below. Please do
	       not order from me if you are interested in obtain a volume. The
	            address for the Linguistics Department is at the bottom of
          the notice.

	       The following peoples, languages and language families have
	       papers
	            about them:
		         Tibeto-Burman: Lahu Shi Balan, Bisu, Western Red
	       Karen
	            Tai: Tai Lue
		         Austro-Asiatic: Molbog
			      Indo-European: S.African/Australian English
			           Mon-Khmer: Huay Jo Khmu

				        Sincerely,
					     Tom Tehan, Chiangmai Thailand
					          ______________________________________________

						       The Payap University
						       Graduate Linguistics
						       Department (Chiang Mai,
						            Thailand) has
						       published their third
						       volume of Working
						       Papers in
						            Linguistics. This
						       third volume includes
						       the following papers -


						            AN ACOUSTIC
						            PHONETIC ANALYSIS
						            OF THE VOWELS AND
						            TONES OF LAHU SHI
							         BALAN
								      Arthur
						            D. Cooper

							         THE KINSHIP
							         SYSTEM OF THE
							         BISU OF
							         CHIANG RAI
								      Kirk
							         R. Person

								      RELATIVE
								      CLAUSES
								      IN TAI
								      LUE
								           William
								      J. Hanna

								           SOME
								           DISCOURSE
								           EVIDENCE
								           FOR
								           ANALYZING
								           MOLBOG
								           AS
								           AN
								           ERGATIVE
								           LANGUAGE
									        Douglas
								           Inglis

									        A
									        PRELIMINARY
									        DISCOURSE
									        ANALYSIS
									        OF
									        WESTERN
									        RED
									        KAREN
									        NARRATIVES
										     Brooke
									        Bryant,
									        Karen
									        Block,
									        John
									        Bryant

										     A
										     SOCIOLINGUISTIC
										     ANALYSIS
										     OF
										     COLOURED
										     SOUTH
										     AFRICAN
										     SPEECH
										     IN
										          AUSTRALIA
											       Ken
										     Manson

										          A
										          PRELIMINARY
										          PHONOLOGICAL
										          ANALYSIS
										          OF
										          HUAY
										          JO
										          KHMU
											       Michael
										          Cooper
										          and
										          Susan
										          Cooper


											       This
											       volume
											       of
											       papers
											       can
											       be
											       ordered
											       by
											       writing
											       to
											       -

											            Department
											            of
											            Linguistics,
											            Graduate
											            School
											            Payap
											            University
												         Chiang
											            Mai,
											            50000
												         Thailand

													      And
													      sending
													      a
													      check
													      made
													      out
													      to
													      Payap
													      University
													      for
													      one
													      of
													      the
													           following
													      amounts
													      -

													           US$16
													           -
													           airmail
														        US$10
													           -
													           seamail

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														   =========================================================================
														   Date:
														   Tue,
														   13
														   Jul
														   1999
														   10:29:20
														   +0200
														   To:
														   endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
														   From:
														   Trond
														   Trosterud
														   <Trond.Trosterud at hum.uit.no>
														   Subject:
														   ELL:
														   On
														   software
														   for
														   Basque
														   and
														   other
														   lgs
														   ("support")
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														       Date:
														       Tue,
														       13
														       Jul
														       1999
														       10:29:20
														       +0200
														       To:
														       endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
														       From:
														       Trond
														       Trosterud
														       <Trond.Trosterud at hum.uit.no>
														       Subject:
														       ELL:
														       On
														       software
														       for
														       Basque
														       and
														       other
														       lgs
														       ("support")
														       X-MIME-Autoconverted:
														       from
														       quoted-printable
														       to
														       8bit
														       by
														       carmen.murdoch.edu.au
														       id
														       QAA16188
														       Sender:
														       owner-endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
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														       endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au

														       Wed,
														       07
														       Jul
														       1999
														       09:31:12
														       +0200
														       Jokin
														       Garatea
														       <garatea at gaia.es>
														       comments
														       a
														       message
														       from
														       Jeff
														       Allen,
														       reporting
														       that
														       "Microsoft
														       Now
														       Supports
														       Basque":

														       Jeff
														       Allen.s
														       quote:

> >The Microsoft Windows 98 operating system, Navigator, and Internet
> Explorer 4.0 >are now available in Basque. This follows an agreement
> between Microsoft and the >Basque Government which recently introduced the
> new products as part of its
> >policy to standardize the Basque language.

Jokin Garatea.s comment:

>In my opinion there is a missunderstanding of appreciation in what concern
 the
 >"support" of Microsoft to the Basque language.


 In my opinion Jokin Garatea is missing the point. Let me start by the word
 "support":

 The English word "support" is ambiguous: 1. within an IT context, "support"
 means "provide, possess, etc.", so when MS Windows supports Pascal it means
 that it is possible to run Pacal programs on that platform. As the readers
 of this list know, there are many ways a program or platform may "support"
 a natural lg L, starting with "containing all the characters used to write
 L", via "containing a keyboard layout for L", to "spellcheckers for L,
 hyphenation for L, grammar tools, thesauri, html conversion, etc. for L,
 the menus and help files for L, the paper manual written in L".  2. Another
 meaning of "support" is "help, give financial aid, voluntarely work, voice
 favourable opinions, etc.".

 The subscribers of this list support minority lgs in this last meaning of
 the word. Individuals working for sofwtware vendors, (perhaps even for
 Microsoft) may agree with us on this point, but I have no illusions
 whatsoever about MS.s (as a company) support for minority lgs. Not that it
 may not happen: With the enourmous profit MS is making on its monopoly
 situation, it certainly is in a position to give some money to World
 Wildlife Fund or whatever, and I would personally have considered fund
 donations for min lg support to be a wise marketing strategy (for buying
 goodwill) for a company like MS.

 Still, Jokin Garatea is probably right, the agreement with the government
 probably involved some money as well, and the agreement may thus as well be
 seen as a financual support form the Bascue government to Microsoft.

 >Do you think that is Microsoft the one who is really supporting the Basque
 >or on
 >the contrary the it is Basque people through the administration who has paid
 >Microsoft to create the tool?

 This must not make us unable to see what we have gained here: Another lg
 has taken an important step into the computerised world. Also: forgetting
 the money for a moment, in one respect the "support" #must# come from
 within the lg community: A software vendor based outside the lg community
 cannot invent the terme needed for translating the software, cannot do the
 language planning involved. Of course thay can pay someone to translate it,
 but central lg planning bodies within the lg community (when they exist)
 should really be involved in the work of creating the terms needed. So yes,
 in this respect the Basque community really supports Microsoft, by
 providing the necessary terms and texts.

 >The minority languages are not a "market" by now because in most cases
 >they have
 >not carried out a marketable approach for their language.

 This is a major point. The marked potential in mother tongue based software
 is underestimated. (Too) many computer users are bilingual, and they are
 too willing to use software written in another lg then their own. One of
 our tasks is to work to streamline software architecture for multilingual
 editions (and I must admit that here Microsoft serves as an example for
 others, even though I otherwise prefer other software than microsofts), and
 to make key people see that anecessary cornerstone in building a modernised
 literary lg is software written in this lg (a minimum is charset and
 keyboard, of course).

As long as the only communication with the computer was F3, SHIF-F7, Print,
Save, command-S, etc. it did not bother me too much to read "save" instead
of "Lagre" on the menu. But This spring I have for the first time used
Norwegian and Finnish spell chackers good enough that it is worth using
them (they cope with compounds, that.s the difference). The more advanced
the interaction with the computers get, the longer the help files, the more
important it is to have the programs in the mother tongue.

Seen in this perspective the question of who paid for what is subordinate.
All other  lgs with small or poor user communities should be glad for the
achievements of Basque and Icelandic this spring. I would like to see some
concrete discussion on this list as to #how# this was achieved, and #how#
more lgs could be provided with software of different kinds.

Greetings,



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