ELL: An open question about conference topics
Nicholas Ostler
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
Wed Mar 17 13:06:54 UTC 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:06:54 +0000
To: endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
From: Nicholas Ostler <nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ELL: An open question about conference topics
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At 2:57 pm +0000 15/3/99, tsc_msea at SIL.ORG wrote:
> To: Nicholas Ostler (and other organizers of the FEL conference)
> From: Tom Tehan (Payap University, Chiangmai Thailand)
...
>
> We were writing about about a group of 150,000 people. By most
> standards this language is not endangered, and probably will not
> become endangered in the short run. However, the group has undergone a
> great deal of social upheaval and has taken specific steps to maintain
> its language and culture.
As far as the Foundation for Endangered Languages is concerned, there is no
numerical cut-off point for language endangerment. Certain forces tell
against the survival of languages, and of the cultures they underpin, but
those forces don't "kick in" at some magic number of population or
population density.
>
> Most of the languages that were talked about at the last FEL
> conference were quite a bit smaller than this. (Although there was a
> paper on Flemish, which has 5.6 million speakers in Belgium.)
If that had been true, it would have been purely contingent, though hardly
surprising: after all, languages that are subject to these forces sooner or
later tend to have rather few speakers. But the incidence of these forces
can change, and with them the fortunes of languages. English, Latin,
Arabic all had periods of threatened existence through close proximity to
larger, more powerful neighbours, and the many imperial languages and
lingue franche of the past (Assyrian, Aramaic, Chinook Jargon, Nahuatl,
Quechua, Coptic) are now endangered or extinct. Quechua for example still
has several million speakers, but with demographic changes and population
movements taking place all over its region transmission between generations
may be threatened. It could "go out like a light".
In fact, looking at the languages represented at our last conference,
besides Flemish we had several European languages with speaker populations
larger than the 150,000 you mention
Slovenian (2 million)
and in Istria
Albanian
Croatian
Italian
Serbian
all with global speaker populations in the millions, although less than
120,000 (most much less) in the Istrian context that was being addressed.
> I thought I would submit my question to the whole e-list for
> discussion because I think many subscribers would have interesting
> thoughts to add. The question has to do with what is a minority
> language/group, a vernacular language, a threatened language/group, or
> an endangered language.
Yes. But I doubt anything is to be gained, as far as protecting or
promoting endangered languages is concerned, by excluding groups who
consider that their language is under threat. From a scientific point of
view, I suppose one might want to focus on very small groups for certain
descriptive purposes (e.g. what happens to domains of discourse discussable
in a language when the population speaking it is so small that it ceases to
represent all walks of life?) But even there, I should have thought that,
in principle, phenomena seen in larger language communities would be
relevant.
>
> So finally I come to the question:
>
> Is it appropriate to address the topic of 'how a minority language
> community in a situation where language maintenance is not encouraged
> (in fact, it is actually discouraged) and facing extreme disruption is
> taking active steps to maintain and promote their own language' at the
> upcoming FEL conference?
So my answer is, Yes, without reservation.
Two aspects of our work, after all, as expressed in our manifesto are:
to lessen the damage:
...
. by emphasizing particular benefits of the diversity still
remaining; and
. by promoting literacy and language maintenance programmes, to
increase the strength and morale of the users of languages in danger.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Nicholas Ostler
President
Foundation for Endangered Languages
Registered Charity 1070616
Batheaston Villa, 172 Bailbrook Lane
Bath BA1 7AA England
+44-1225-85-2865 fax +44-1225-85-9258
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Philosophy/CTLL/FEL/
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:58:13 +0700
From: Matthew McDaniel <akha at loxinfo.co.th>
Organization: The Akha Heritage Foundation
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To: endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
Subject: Re: ELL: clarification about SIL from an external point of view
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:58:13 +0700
From: Matthew McDaniel <akha at loxinfo.co.th>
Organization: The Akha Heritage Foundation
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Subject: Re: ELL: clarification about SIL from an external point of view
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It is said that SIL and Wycliffe have the same board.
It is said frequently that SIL was made up to take the heat off practices
that
Wycliffe was engaged in and present a secular face, all the while able to
fade
back and forth through the wall at will.
Maybe someone with specific information on this could reply and possible
someone
at upper management at SIL could either substantiate or discredit the
statement
in a book that SIL was organized for this reason and has the same board as
Wycliffe, in which case they are not seperate.
Matthew
Jeff ALLEN wrote:
> At 14:47 17/03/99 +0700, Matthew McDaniel wrote:
> >I would also like to comment on the e-mail about SIL(Wycliffe Bible
> >Translators).
> >I still think that as holding a huge vault of knowledge regarding
> >language as taken from the indigenous, which is an indigenous product of
> >knowledge, SIL might address the issues of its reputation from the
> >perspective that it is the same organization as Wycliffe ...
>
> I am sorry to feel the need to post another clarification point on this
> point, but it seems necessary. I am not an SIL or Wycliffe member,
> but I am familiar enough with these organizations to reply to this point.
>
> SIL and Wycliffe Bible Translators are not the same organization.
> They are sister, yet quite separate, organizations. In fact, you
> forgot to include the third sister that is called JAARS. Their
> roles are different and it is quite important to distinguish between
> them because not everyone who is affiliated with SIL is concerned
> with the promotion of translating the Bible into vernacular languages.
>
> 1. Wycliffe Bible Translators is a missionary organization that
> sends missionaries from various countries to other countries
> for the purpose of translating the Bible into various languages
> depending on the needs determined by in-depth surveys.
> Members of Wycliffe must apply to be missionaries from their
> host countries.
>
> 2. SIL (the Summer Institute of Linguistics in English and the
> Societe Internationale de Linguistique in French) is a linguistic
> training and research organization. It offers intensive training
> in all aspects of linguistics from articulatory phonetics to
> sociolinguistics and literacy. Members of SIL are trained linguists.
> It is important to recognize that temporary affiliated individuals may
> simply be students taking undergraduate or post-graduate courses
> for credit on state university campuses (University of Oregon,
> University
> of North Dakota, University of Texas-Arlington) where SIL members
> and other non-SIL professors teach the courses. I was invited to
> develop and teach a new Sociolinguistics program and head the
> Sociolinguistics Dept at the French branch of SIL because of my
> expertise in sociolinguistics and because I spent many years studying
> and conducting research in this field for 2 advanced degrees at a French
> state university. I know of many other university professors that offer
> their time on a volunteer basis, or through teaching during the summers
> at their home institutions, in developing and teaching linguistics
> courses
> for SIL. SIL also has external advisory members who evaluate work
> done by SIL members. These external members have nothing to do
> with Bible translation, but are rather quite concerned with providing
> adequate and quality linguistic training and research results to the
> wider linguistics community. It is therefore very important to
> distinguish
> between SIL and Wycliffe. There are many undergraduate and
> post-graduate students who have benefitted from quality, intensive
> linguistics training (much as I did as an undergraduate student 10 years
> ago) in order to pursue advanced degrees, but who have nothing to do
> with Wycliffe and its mission. There are many university professors and
> researchers who provide their counsel as external advisors for
> linguistics
> issue to SIL, but who also are not concerned with Bible translation.
> Lumping Wycliffe and SIL together as the same organization inappropriate
> for these reasons.
>
> 3. JAARS is the support branch (computers, materials, avionics) for
> 1 and 2 above.
>
>
> There are many missionaries who members of both Wycliffe and SIL because
> they conduct linguistic research for the purpose of Bible translation, and
> some of them teach SIL courses because they have practical linguistics
> fieldwork experience that is useful for teaching courses. In such cases,
> it is necessary to refer them as members of the 2 organizations.
>
> There are also missionaries with Wycliffe who are not SIL members
> (for example, teachers of missionary kids in missionary schools).
>
> The fact that I offer my free time once in a while to compile bibliographies
> for SIL courses, and to provide consultation as an external expert in
> the field, is an issue of wanting to see a good linguistics program and
> organization become better with time. SIL members have appreciated
> my counsel and I have benefitted in working with SIL linguists. The
> benefit is mutual when I have in need of information and have had
> answers come back from SIL linguists within a period of 24-48 hours.
>
> >In addition, considering the glowing report for how helpful SIL is on
> >literacy,
>
> It is not the issue of a "glowing report" but a factual report from an
> outsider who has been invited to give courses at their linguistics
> schools because they did not have the internal expertise at the
> time. From that opportunity, we have been able to develop a
> modular program and train SIL members to teach it.
>
> >why did they flatly refuse to assist on a wide based non
> >partisan literacy project for the Akha ...
>
> I have no idea with regard to this. All I can say from a personal
> point of view is that language politics are a sticky issue. I myself
> in the past have avoided being affiliated with certain projects
> because of political issues that I did not want to get involved in.
> Maybe SIL has chosen to do the same on this. Only SIL could
> really answer you more accurately on this point.
>
> All in all, please make the distinction that is necessary in referring to
> missionary and linguistics organizations, since it implies labels
> and affiliation points that are not quite true.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeff
> (who just spent his lunch hour writing this message)
>
> =================================================
> Jeff ALLEN - Directeur Technique
> European Language Resources Association (ELRA) &
> European Language Resources Distribution Agency (ELDA)
> (Agence Europ.enne de Distribution des Ressources Linguistiques)
> 55, rue Brillat-Savarin
> 75013 Paris FRANCE
> Tel: (+33) (0) 1.43.13.33.33 - Fax: (+33) (0) 1.43.13.33.30
> mailto:jeff at elda.fr
> http://www.icp.grenet.fr/ELRA/home.html
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--
Matthew McDaniel
The Akha Heritage Foundation
386/3 Sailom Joi Rd
Maesai, Chiangrai, 57130
Thailand
Mobile Phone Number: Sometimes hard to reach while in Mountains.
01-881-9288 when in Thailand
66-1-881-9288 when out Thailand
Web Site:
http://www.akha.com
mailto:akha at loxinfo.co.th
US Address:
Donations by check or money order may be sent to:
The Akha Heritage Foundation
1586 Ewald Ave SE
Salem OR 97302
USA
Donations by direct banking:
In the US can be transfered to:
Wells Fargo Bank
Akha Heritage Foundation
Acc. # 0081-889693
Keizer Branch
Keizer, Oregon, USA
Outside the US:
Matthew Duncan McDaniel
Bangkok Bank Ltd
Acc.# 3980240778
Maesai Branch
Thailand
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