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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:43:09 +0000
To: endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
From: Nicholas Ostler <nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk>
Subject: ELL: Comments on the FEL Conference
Cc: doc at ite.ie, white.cloud at bigpond.com
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At 9:45 am +0000 18/3/99, Marion Gunn wrote:
...
>Only if they are members of _Registered_UK_Charity_FEL_, Tom.
>Unfortunately, there will be no guest speakers at their next conference --
>Nicholas Ostler and/or Chris Moseley said participation in it is restricted
>to registered FEL members _only_ (which pretty well excludes almost
>everyone I know).
>
>I am not criticizing FEL for holding a privately funded, closed conference
>-- which is good for any local tourist industry! -- but I'd have thought
>some of the other organizers (Donncha .Cr.n. or Mari Rhydwen, for
>example) would have favoured an open, pay-in conference. Seems I was wrong
>about that.
>mg
Surprisingly, that may have been the one thing in Marion's message that she
was RIGHT about. Just to correct this gratuitous mis-information about our
conference:
First of all, Marion is no position to know whether there will be guest
speakers at our next conference. I shall inform everyone as soon as the
organizing committee know themselves. Until then, I suggest we wait, hope,
even pray.
Second, our conference is as much an "open, pay-in conference" as anyone
could wish. Marion may have mis-interpreted a paragraph in our call for
abstracts, which I repeat here for convenience:
>The Foundation for Endangered Languages is a registered charity in England
>Wales. FEL conferences, besides being opportunities to discuss the issues
>from
>a global viewpoint, are working meetings of the Foundation, defining our
>overall policy for future years. Participants at the conference therefore
>need
>to be members of the Foundation. There are full facilities to join on
>arrival,
>but all proposers are strongly urged to join as soon as possible, and so take
>full part in the Foundation.s activities in the lead-up to the conference.
Anyone can turn up to our meeting, and join us. The conference cost will
be as low as we can make it, but we certainly need to "rope people in" for
membership when we have them with us, since running an organization like
ours WITHOUT ANY PRIVATE FINANCE (as we do) means we are crucially
dependent on subscriptions.
And anyone who attended our conference last year knows that we do as much
as we can to make attendance, and membership, possible for people who can't
pay their own costs.
It would be possible for us to increase the conference fee by the amount of
a year's subscription, and save ourselves the trouble and expense of later
sending out newsletters to attendees who might not choose to join. But we
believe that everyone who attends the conference will be happy to associate
themselves with our Manifesto, and hence be glad to join us.
And our meeting is that much warmer if we are all united explicitly in
solidarity with common goals.
I am not going to clog up this list with the full text of the Manifesto,
which would justify what I am saying. I'll be happy to send it to anyone
who asks. Here's the crucial bit, anyway:
********
...
We cannot stem the global forces which are at the root of language decline
and loss.
But we can work to lessen the ignorance which sees language loss as
inevitable when it is not, and does not properly value all that will go
when a language itself vanishes.
We can work to see technological developments, such as computing and
telecommunications, used to support small communities and their traditions
rather than to supplant them.
And we can work to lessen the damage:
. by recording as much as possible of the languages of communities
which seem to be in terminal decline;
. by emphasizing particular benefits of the diversity still
remaining; and
. by promoting literacy and language maintenance programmes, to
increase the strength and morale of the users of languages in danger.
In order to further these aims, there is a need for an autonomous
international organization which is not constrained or influenced by
matters of race, politics, gender or religion. This organization will
recognise in language issues the principles of self-determination, and
group and individual rights. It will pay due regard to economic, social,
cultural, community and humanitarian considerations. Although it may work
with any international, regional or local Authority, it will retain its
independence throughout. Membership will be open to those in all walks of
life.
...
********
So we certainly hope to see as many as possible of you in Maynooth on 17-19
September, to discuss "Endangered Languages and Education", whether or not
you are as yet paid-up members of the Foundation!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Nicholas Ostler
President
Foundation for
Endangered Languages
Registered Charity 1070616
Batheaston Villa, 172
Bailbrook Lane
Bath
BA1 7AA England
+44-1225-85-2865
fax +44-1225-85-9258
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Philosophy/CTLL/FEL/
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Date:
Thu,
18
Mar
1999
15:39:00
-0500
Subject:
Re[2]:
ELL:
clarification
about
SIL
from
an
external
point
o
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From:
tsc_msea at SIL.ORG
Date:
Thu,
18
Mar
1999
15:39:00
-0500
Subject:
Re[2]:
ELL:
clarification
about
SIL
from
an
external
point
o
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I
would
like
to
address
a
couple
of
the
issues
about
SIL
that
have
arisen
recently.
First,
I'd
like
to
say
that
I
am
speaking
as
an
individual
member
of
SIL
and
not
as
an
official
spokesman. Also
I
can
only
speak
to
issues
that
I
am
aware
of,
and
obviously
I
can't
talk
about
what
I
don't
know.
Matthew
McDaniel
had
some
specific
comments
with
implied
questions
that
I
feel
I
can
respond
to.
1. First
Matthew
said,
"It
is
said
that
SIL
and
Wycliffe
have
the
same
board."
They do not have the same board and are separate corporations. The
Wycliffe board governs an international group of many national
(non-western and western) organizations that relate to the
sending
groups
and
individuals
in
the
various
home
countries. In
contrast,
the
SIL
board
directs
the
language
work
in
various
other
countries. The
governing
boards
are
not
comprised
of
the
same
individuals
although
each
board
has
a
few
members
who
participate
in
the
meetings
of
the
other
board.
SIL
is
composed
of
individual
members
who
are
volunteers,
responsible
for
raising
their
own
support. At
the
individual
member
level,
there
are
people
who
join
Wycliffe
but
who
never
join
SIL. Other
individual
members
join
Wycliffe
and
then
join
SIL. There
are
also
members
of
SIL
who
come
from
countries
where
there
is
no
Wycliffe
organization
to
join. Many
who
join
SIL
are
linguists
and
do
the
work
of
linguistics,
sociolinguistics,
applied
linguistics,
literacy,
etc. Others
join
SIL
in
order
to
support
the
work
of
those
language
workers.
2. Matthew
also
said,
"It
is
said
frequently
that
SIL
was
made
up
to
take
the
heat
off
practices
that
Wycliffe
was
engaged
in
and
present
a
secular
face,
all
the
while
able
to
fade
back
and
forth
through
the
wall
at
will."
SIL
and
Wycliffe
were
formed
and
then
incorporated
around
the
same
time
in
the
1930's. From
the
beginning
these
organizations
worked
on
different
tasks
in
different
locations
with
different
audiences. SIL
is
an
organization
that
supports
linguistic
work
(descriptive
and
applied)
in
minority
languages
of
the
world
and
trains
people
in
linguistics. I
am
a
member
of
both
organizations.
3. In
addition
Matthew
said,
"Maybe
someone
with
specific
information
on
this
could
reply
and
possible
someone
at
upper
management
at
SIL
could
either
substantiate
or
discredit
the
statement
in
a
book
that
SIL
was
organized
for
this
reason
and
has
the
same
board
as
Wycliffe,
in
which
case
they
are
not
seperate."
I'm
not
sure
which
book
Matthew
is
talking
about. Books
have
been
written
criticizing
SIL
and/or
Wycliffe,
and
books
have
been
written
praising
SIL
and/or
Wycliffe. Also
both
SIL
and
Wycliffe
(separate
publishers)
have
published
books
about
their
respective
organizations
or
certain
work
that
people
who
belong
to
the
organization
have
undertaken. It
is
very
easy
to
find
statements
of
either
a
pro
or
con
nature
about
either
organization.
It
is
not
clear
to
me
from
the
statement
what
`this
reason'
is,
and
in
fact
there
are
many
reasons
that
individuals
have
found
SIL
to
be
the
best
available
vehicle
for
them
to
do
their
language
work
and
serve
some
minority
people
groups. I
believe
that
SIL
and
Wycliffe
were
each
organized
to
facilitate
the
particular
work
that
each
organization
does.
According
to
the
last
part
of
Matthew's
statement,
I
take
it
that
Matthew
would
be
willing
to
agree
that
Wycliffe
and
SIL
are
separate
since
they
in
fact
do
not
have
the
same
board.
A
little
note
on
which
projects
SIL
attempts
to
help
in. SIL
has
neither
unlimited
funds
nor
unlimited
personnel. All
of
the
personnel
are
volunteers. Each
organization
determines
which
projects
in
which
areas
it
will
place
priority
and
which
projects
it
will
staff
if
personnel
are
available. In
working
in
SE
Asia,
SIL
has
cooperated
with
various
universities
and
other
local
organizations.
In
Northern
Thailand,
we
have
cooperated
with
Payap
University
in
training
linguists
at
the
MA
level,
with
students
from
Akha,
Sgaw
Karen,
Pwo
Karen,
Rawang,
Jingphaw,
Jirel,
Tamil,
Hmong,
Northern
Thai
and
other
language
groups
receiving
training. We
also
have
the
Applied
Linguistics
Training
Program,
which
holds
workshops
lasting
from
a
few
days
to
a
month. There
are
a
variety
of
foci
for
the
workshops. But
in
the
writers
workshops,
which
focus
on
creating
literature
in
the
writers'
various
languages,
writers
from
Akha,
White
Hmong,
Blue
Hmong,
Lisu,
Khmu,
Rawang,
Sgaw
Karen,
Black
Lahu,
Lahu
Shi,
So,
Iu
Mien,
Lua
and
other
language
groups
have
participated. These
programs
seem
at
the
moment
to
be
good
places
for
us
to
concentrate
our
limited
resources.
So
anyway,
that's
what
I
know
about
some
of
the
issues
in
Matthew
questions.
Thank
you
all
for
listening.
Tom
Tehan
______________________________
Reply
Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: ELL: clarification about SIL from an external point of v
Author: akha at loxinfo.co.th at internet
Date: 17-03-99 10:58 AM
It is said that SIL and Wycliffe have the same board.
It is said frequently that SIL was made up to take the heat off practices that
Wycliffe was engaged in and present a secular face, all the while able to fade
back and forth through the wall at will.
Maybe someone with specific information on this could reply and possible
someone
at upper management at SIL could either substantiate or discredit the
statement
in a book that SIL was organized for this reason and has the same board as
Wycliffe, in which case they are not seperate.
Matthew
... (snipped)
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:09:57 +0000
From: Marion Gunn <mgunn at ucd.ie>
Organization: ucd <http://listserv.heanet.ie/>
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Subject: Re: ELL: Comments on the FEL Conference
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:09:57 +0000
From: Marion Gunn <mgunn at ucd.ie>
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Subject: Re: ELL: Comments on the FEL Conference
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Yes, that is exactly the paragraph I meant! I do not believe I have
misinterpreted it as meaning participation is to be restricted to
registered FEL members.
If FEL does not want local people just droppin in on spec, I still find
that most unusual in a charity organization, but I fully accept that
that is not my business, and I even congratulate FEL on having enough
paid-up subscriptions to finance conferences without dipping into the
public pocket, either (that much I did not know, but, for what it's
worth, I think it admirable, if true).
I hope Nicholas finds in this message nothing to which he can object.
mg
Nicholas Ostler wrote:
> Marion may have mis-interpreted a paragraph in our call for
> abstracts, which I repeat here for convenience:
>
> >...
> > FEL conferences, besides being opportunities to discuss the issues
> >from
> >a global viewpoint, are working meetings of the Foundation, defining our
> >overall policy for future years. Participants at the conference therefore
> >need
> >to be members of the Foundation.
>...
> Anyone can turn up to our meeting, and join us. The conference cost will
> be as low as we can make it, but we certainly need to "rope people in" for
> membership when we have them with us, since running an organization like
> ours WITHOUT ANY PRIVATE FINANCE (as we do) means we are crucially
> dependent on subscriptions.
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