ELL: moderator
Allen and Mari
white.cloud at bigpond.com
Mon Oct 4 03:12:35 UTC 1999
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From: "Allen and Mari" <white.cloud at bigpond.com>
To: <endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au>
Subject: ELL: moderator
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:12:35 +0800
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Dear ELL subscribers,
I was just sailing up to and around the NW Cape and so I have
been out of
email contact for a few days. Currently I am sailing off
Onslow, having
made a detour to pick up a mobile phone tower, and I find all
the mayhem
about moderators happening while I was off batting 45kt winds!
I am so sorry for not being there when things were running hot.
I will look
into ways to dealing with this shortly.
In the meantime, I hope things will calm down for a while..we do
indeed have
these little flare ups every now and again but every time I
solicit opinions
from subscribers about whether I should unsubsribe people, the
general mood
seems to be to leave things alone.
Mari
Mari Rhydwen white.cloud at bigpond.com
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Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:40:41 -0400
From: Kelvin Massey <kmassey1 at utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
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Subject: RE: ELL: Endangered Languages Debate
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Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:40:41 -0400
From: Kelvin Massey <kmassey1 at utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
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Subject: RE: ELL: Endangered Languages Debate
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Henry,
I agree with you that the acceptance of Christianity has for
some indigenous
peoples been a means of preserving their language and culture.
The Cherokees
in the southeastern U.S. are a perfect example. The most
courageous
non-Cherokee defenders of their rights during the last century
were
missionaries. Two of these missionaries spent a year in prison
for their
advocacy of Cherokee rights. Samuel Worcester, who was one of
those
imprisoned, was instrumental in founding the Cherokee Phoenix (a
bilingual
newspaper) as well as in designing the typescript for the
Cherokee syllabary.
He continously agitated for the right of Cherokee people to
speak and write in
their own language, and continued his work in Oklahoma after
their forced
removal. The courageous examples of Worcester and other
missionaries are
probably why so many Cherokees today are Christians, and why
Cherokee-language
churches are seen as embodiments of traditional culture by many
Cherokees
(there are traditionalist non-Christian Cherokees as well).
Kelvin Massey
University of Tennessee--Knoxville
>===== Original Message From
endangered-languages-l at carmen.murdoch.edu.au
=====
>So many people have criticized the recent debate/arguments.
One
>way to deal with this if you don't like the current issue, is
to post
>one of your own. I attempted to do this by presenting the
example
>of the Ojibwe and Hawaiians on Niihau. I attempted to look
>at language [which is what this list is supposed to be about]
>specifically, while incorporating the issue of religion that
Matthew
>so often talks about. Yet there has been not one comment
about
>my posting. Not even Matthew has commented on the apparent
>contrast to the situation with the Akha that I have presented.
>If the ideal of this list is discussion of endangered
languages, why
>does no discuss what I have presented or bring up a language
>topic of their own?
>
>Henry Szymonik
>
>
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:00:03 +0700
From: Matthew McDaniel <akha at loxinfo.co.th>
Organization: The Akha Heritage Foundation
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:00:03 +0700
From: Matthew McDaniel <akha at loxinfo.co.th>
Organization: The Akha Heritage Foundation
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But Asia dominated Orient is not jamming your neighborhoods
with evangelizing
Buddhists.
Very different.
And the number of white missionaries here is supported by a
very large
population of white american Christians, in the thousands if
not the hundreds
of thousands. They have big budgets that don't come from one
church or one
person. Where would you like to sort it out.
White view and treatment of the world is not all inclusive, but
it is one of
the ones deepest in denial, like sayig that white people don't
have it better
in the world solely in some situations because they are white.
Try walking
your black friend into a white bar somewhere.
The problem is that the white missionaries are OVER HERE.
Matthew
Henry Szymonik wrote:
> > I can not say why it is almost solely white people doing
this, but don't
> > you think one might make note of it?
>
> > It is part of white religious culture in my opinion to
do this. Why is
> > that such a leap in logic.
> > But for me to point it out is racist?
>
> This is such a basic root of racism, I'm surprised you
don't recognize it.
>
> White racists like the KKK will point out that the fact
that blacks in the
> U.S.have higher unemployment rates and lower educational
levels than whites
> shows that black are lazier and stupider than whites.
The same arguement
> is used for Native Americans. This without looking at
the reasons why
> these groups in general are less well off.
>
> My grandparents lived in downtown Hartford during the
60's riots. All the
> people they saw rioting were black. From that time until
their deaths, they
> always saw blacks as violent people to be avoided. Was
this appropriate?
>
> Many say that Jews are "only interested in money." But
it is not an ethnic
> trait, merely a negative stereotype based on historical
circumstances that
> forced many Jews to work in finance in medieval Europe.
>
> In Los Angeles' predominantly black neighborhoods, many if not most of
> the corner groceries are owned and run by Koreans. Many blacks complain
> that the Koreans are rude to them and charge exorbitant prices. During the
> LA riots
> many of these stores were destroyed by rioters. For many, these Korean
> store
> owners were the only Koreans they knew. Is right, therefore, for them to
> say,
> "Koreans are rude and money-grubbing"?
>
> How many white Christians are in the U.S.? Even if only half of the U.S.'
> white
> population is Christian, that means 100,000,000. And how many white
> Christians
> have you dealt with in Thailand? Yes, I think it's a huge leap to assign
> what you
> see in the missionaries you deal with to the entire white population.
>
> "white religious culture"? Amazing how you've created this monolith.
> As someone who has gone from being Catholic to a fundamentalist,
> born-again Christian to an Atheist, and experienced about a dozen
> other denominations as well as Buddhism and Judaism, I know that
> "white religious culture" is much more varied than you make it.
>
> > Isn't it odd that in the White dominated west, there is little venue for
> > addressing missionary abuses and the missionaries in most cases happen
> > to be white and come from the west?
>
> "White dominated West" As opposed to the "Asian dominated Orient" or
> the "Arab dominated Middle East"? The West [and I'll assume you're talking
> about U.S./Canada and Western Europe] is "dominated" by whites because
> the vast majority of its population is white.
>
> Should there be a High Court for Addressing Missionary Abuses? Have you
>
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--
Matthew McDaniel
The Akha Heritage Foundation
386/3 Sailom Joi Rd
Maesai, Chiangrai, 57130
Thailand
Mobile Phone Number: Sometimes hard to reach while in Mountains.
66-01-881-9288
US Address:
Donations by check or money order may be sent to:
The Akha Heritage Foundation
PO BOX 6073
Salem OR 97304
USA
Donations by direct banking can be transferred to:
(Preferred)
Wells Fargo Bank
Akha Heritage Foundation
Acc. # 0081-889693
Keizer Branch # 1842 04
4990 N. River Road.
Keizer, Oregon, 97303 USA
ABA # 121000248
Or In Thailand:
Matthew Duncan McDaniel
Acc. # 3980240778
Bangkok Bank Ltd.
Maesai Branch
Thailand
Web Site:
http://www.akha.com
mailto:akha at loxinfo.co.th
Discussion Groups:
akha at onelist.com
indigenousworld at onelist.com
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