Antw: Don't Apologise

Fri May 6 12:36:48 UTC 2011

Dear Dave,

Naturally, such a finer differentiation serves well (at least in English or German; as a typologist I'm not sure that it works for all languages - and maybe cultures). 

It describes straightforward also what discriminated groups would like to have, I think. But interpreting the situation from the side of the discriminated/victims, I suppose they will not weigh the words, they will look for honesty in the saying.

The discussion shows nicely what we should avoid: reductive dualistic standpoints like "apologize" vs. "don't apologize". 

Thanks for having enriched our Friday!

Franz

>>> Dave Sayers <dave.sayers at CANTAB.NET> 5/6/2011 1:08 >>>
I think that one of the contrasts aimed for in the linked lecture, although not particularly well advanced in it, was between apology on the one hand, and constructive acknowledgement of past wrongs on the other hand. So, the former would look like "We're sorry for what we did" (the criticism being that the second we simply no longer exists), while the latter would look more like "We acknowledge what our ancestors did, and we (now) will work to right those wrongs in any way we can". The latter can include a kind of apology, in the same way that you might apologise for someone associated with you and who has caused some offence (apology by proxy); but it also draws a clearer line around the meaning of 'apology' in the purest sense.

Franz (and others) - do you think this latter form of constructive acknowledgement could be appreciated by discriminated groups, like an apology could be?

Apologies if this is a bit much for a Friday afternoon!

Dave

--
Dr. Dave Sayers
Honorary Research Fellow
College of Arts & Humanities
and Language Research Centre
Swansea University
dave.sayers at cantab.net
http://swansea.academia.edu/DaveSayers

On 06/05/2011 10:15, Franz.Dotter at uni-klu.ac.at wrote: 

Dear colleagues,

There are several correct things in the argumentation in favor of "Non-apologizing", as e.g. that we put our nowadays perspective on historic events which happened in completely different cultural contexts, by that obstructing our understanding what really happened.

But I would really very much contradict the aim of "Don't apologize" for several reasons:
Apologies can contribute to the weakening of historical traumata which sometimes play a destructive role in our living together. The range of this goes from big mass murder to our own families' history: To apologize for (or to acknowledge dolor which is just a slight language variant of apologizing) the fact that an aunt in our own family was discriminated because she gave birth to a child without being married may help her child much. As an Austrian I'm still ashamed abou the mass murder done by the Nazis in my country and I'm very much feeling with the victims, even having some bad conscience (against factuality). Therefore I have very much appreciated any apology against Jewish, Polish, Roma etc. people done by our politicians. Now working with deaf people who were discriminated for a long time, I understand their wish for an apology what has been done to them.

Naturally, there is no "scientific proof" that we should do that (but also no proof against it), may it come from philosophy, law, or what else. Naturally, apologizing may become fashionable and an instrument of manipulating people. But at the end there is a big relief if we act like e.g. the African coping with mass murder, be it actual or several deceniia or centuries behind. Victims and successors of victims may profit much when some representatives declare (e.g. by apology) that they or their ancestors have been treated badly. Pragmatically, they may feel it as some sort of "justice". Naturally, it is not in the literal sense, but it is in feeling and strenthening identity.

One argument against the "different cultural context" which we seemingly do not accept in apologizing: Interestingly enough, we find in many phases of human history that there were people who did not want to treat others badly (we had e.g. Jesuits arguing against murdering South American Indians, we had farmners arguing against feudal ideology). Therefore the "cultural perspective" was not unanimous as may be falsely assumed. So the feeling of "injustice" was much more existent than "Don't apologize" assumes.

Honest apology should remain a pragmatic mode of relief and education in human rights.

Best Regards

Franz Dotter

University of Klagenfurt
Center for Sign Language and Deaf Communication
Funded by: Provincial government of Carinthia, Bundessozialamt Kaernten
Head: Franz Dotter (hearing)
Collaborators: Elisabeth Bergmeister (deaf), Silke Bornholdt (deaf), Andrea Grilz (hearing, on maternity leave), Christian Hausch (deaf), Marlene Hilzensauer (hearing), Klaudia Krammer (hearing), Christine Kulterer (hearing), Anita Pirker (deaf), Nathalie Slavicek (hard of hearing), Natalie Unterberger (deaf)
Homepage: http://www.uni-klu.ac.at/zgh
Deaf server (in German): http://deaf.uni-klu.ac.at
Fax: ++43 (0)463 2700 2899
Phone: ++43 (0)463 2700 /2821 (Franz Dotter),/2823 (Marlene Hilzensauer), /2824 (Klaudia Krammer), /2829 (Christine Kulterer)
Email addresses: firstname.lastname at uni-klu.ac.at

>>> Dave Sayers <dave.sayers at CANTAB.NET> ( mailto:dave.sayers at CANTAB.NET ) 5/6/2011 9:38 >>>
A broadcast lecture arguing against apologising for historical wrongs, 
which I thought might be of some interest to list members.

The title, and my brief synopsis, might bring to mind any number of 
stubborn polemics, but it's actually (I thought) a cleverly thought out 
piece. At least it certainly isn't about defending or shrugging off 
historical wrongs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010t7tx

I think BBC radio online is available outside the UK, although I have no 
way to check.

Dave

--
Dr. Dave Sayers
Honorary Research Fellow
College of Arts & Humanities
and Language Research Centre
Swansea University
dave.sayers at cantab.net
http://swansea.academia.edu/DaveSayers
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