Four conditions - One pool of stimuli

[Emmet]

Hi everyone,

I had a very productive few hours since my last panicked entry and I
think I have my experiment sorted very well. It was almost a couple of
Eureka moments and browsing previous questions and the PST forums. I
now have three conditions and a practice block, all drawing 25 random
pictures from a nested list of 125 pictures. I must say, the
userguide, while initially helpful, was more of a hindrance towards
the end. I felt that discovering how to construct the bare bones
"skeleton" of the sequence of events was the key. Since I did that,
I've been adding bits and pieces on here and there for the last couple
of hours and I think I may be ready to test my participants in a few
days. Thank you for your help, David and Liwenna.

best regards,

Emmet

University of York

On Jun 27, 11:40 am, Emmet <emmet.c.cla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Liwenna,
>
> Thanks for the advice- emptying the procedure column worked and I am
> now able to show more than one slide per each condition of my
> experiment. This has created another problem for me because now I can
> only seem to get text into my slides. I used text just to get the
> design up and running but now when I enter a filename into the
> Stimulus attribute of my nested list, it enters the text of the
> filename rather than referencing the file itself. I can get my picture
> up but only if I insert it directly into the slide object. But I can't
> do that because I have 125 of them to exhibit! I'm getting for antsy
> about my project now, deadlines and this eprime business has consumed
> my life!
>
> many many thanks,
>
> Emmet
>
> On Jun 24, 11:15 am, liwenna <liwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is
> > entered in the collumn 'procedure' ?
>
> > On Jun 23, 3:26 pm, Emmet <emmet.c.cla... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi David,
>
> > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response
> > > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what
> > > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with
> > > it:
>
> > > >You can do this very easily
> > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested
> > > > List, say, StimList.
>
> > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently,
> > > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my
> > > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I
> > > get this error message:
>
> > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error:
> > > Can't find procedure definition"
>
> > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list.
> > > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am
> > > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that
> > > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level?
>
> > > many thanks in advance,
>
> > > Emmet
>
> > > University of York
>
> > > On Jun 16, 7:39 pm, David McFarlane <mcfar... at msu.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > Emmet,
>
> > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
> > > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they
> > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
> > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
> > > > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend
> > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>
> > > > That said, here is my take...
>
> > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I
> > > > can.  Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one
> > > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without
> > > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25
> > > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled).  You can do this very easily
> > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested
> > > > List, say, StimList.  Set that List to Random.  Now, in any other
> > > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList
> > > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just
> > > > as you normally would.  You can have one main List take 25 samples
> > > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up
> > > > right where it left off.  IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125
> > > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is
> > > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over.  Or, you can
> > > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab.
>
> > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of
> > > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them.  Think of
> > > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get
> > > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a
> > > > nested List.  I have written about this elsewhere, if you search
> > > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but
> > > > here is another attempt...
>
> > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values
> > > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested
> > > > Lists) to draw from.  So, you start by shuffling all these decks as
> > > > needed.  Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the
> > > > attribute values written on it.  If any of these names another deck,
> > > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values;
> > > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from
> > > > that deck, etc.  When you are done you will have a set of attribute
> > > > values to work with for that trial.  At the end of the trial you put
> > > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and
> > > > then draw new cards.  Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its
> > > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on.
>
> > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify
> > > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab,
> > > > but this is a pretty good first approximation.
>
> > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate
> > > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex
> > > > matter.  Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now.
>
> > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder
> > > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
> > > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman,
> > > > Nobel prize-winning physicist)
>
> > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
>
> > > > >Hi all,
>
> > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely
> > > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I
> > > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour
> > > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25
> > > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists
> > > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the
> > > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures
> > > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant,
> > > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering
> > > > >of the stimuli from start through finish.
>
> > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you
> > > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?)
>
> > > > >many thanks in advance,
>
> > > > >Emmet Clarke
>
> > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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