Trial number from randomseed

[Tiffanie]

Hi David,

Thanks so much for your quick reply!

Yes - the program failed to log any data at all!

The first time I tried to run the program, to make sure everything was
working, I pressed spacebar to move on to the next trial, and when I
checked the data, I saw all the attributes listed. And I took it for
granted, and didn't run the whole programme again by itself (without
any response). It is really weird (and upsetting!) - I wouldn't know
how to turn off the Procedure logging with any inline code. On the
list with all the attributes, under property name -  when I said I
checked them, I guess I meant I made sure they were checked (and they
definitely were). Also, I sent my previous message out in a state of
panic so I probably wasn't very clear, but I tested the program on my
own, and I responded to each trial when I tested it. However, when the
students did the experiment, they did not respond at all - and for
those, no data was collected.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure I understood the part about the
RandomSeed - do you mean it's possible for me to retrieve the
presentation order from the RandomSeed? I really hope so - because in
principle, if the user can enter a randomseed number that fixes the
presentation order, it should work the other way too?

I will look around the knowledge base and pst website. I really hope I
find something! Thanks!


> So reading through your plea, I understand that your program did not
> merely fail to log the trial/stimulus order (which would have been
> odd, because by default EP *always* logs *every* List attribute used
> *in presentation order*, whether you want it or not), but failed to
> log any data *at all*.  Is that right?
>
> And I am (figuratively) scratching my balding head trying to figure
> out how you managed to get things logged when giving a response, but
> not for non-responses.  That is really weird.  EP by default logs all
> information at the end of each Procedure, response or not, so I
> cannot imagine how you got rows of data for responses, but not for
> non-responses.  As far as I can figure, you would have to go *way*
> out of your way to turn off the automatic Procedure logging and
> replace it with your own inline code, which would be bad unless you
> *really* knew what you were doing.  So I must be overlooking
> something obvious.  But no matter.
>
> Finally, you said that, "On the list with all the attributes, under
> Logging," you "checked the attributes property name".  Hmm.  By
> default, those Logging attributes already have check marks; if you
> went in and manually "checked" them, then you really unchecked them,
> and that turned off their logging.  But that would mean that they
> would fail to log for both non-responses *and* responses, which does
> not square with your account.  So I am stumped on how you got to this state.
>
> Anyway, that was not your question at all.  As I take it, you merely
> want a mechanism to use the recorded RandomSeed to regenerate the
> presentation order.  Well, the short answer is, if you look around
> the E-Prime Knowledge Base on the PST web site, you will find
> instructions on how to enter a RandomSeed value and have EP run with
> that.  As I recall, it comes down to adding RandomSeed as a
> StartupInfo parameter (I cover StartupInfo parameters in my
> course).  For details, consult the EP KB, or PST Web Support.
>
> -----
> David McFarlane
> E-Prime training
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
> At 3/15/2012 03:23 PM Thursday, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Dear all,
>
> >I am quite new to E-prime and I've just realised that the programme
> >that I have been using to collect data for the past two weeks hasn't
> >been logging the data correctly!
>
> >Basically, participants are presented with a series of attributes
> >describing four hypothetical apartments (these attributes are
> >presented for a fixed time of 4seconds). At the end of it,
> >participants are asked to decide which apartment they would like to
> >live in.
> >I am interested in how the order of presentation of attributes affects
> >this final judgement and there were some obvious issues with have a
> >fixed order across all participants so we decided to randomise it.
> >However, we decided on this with the impression that E-prime would log
> >the data of the order in which the attributes appeared (at random). On
> >the list with all the attributes, under Logging, I checked the
> >attributes property name. I guess I made a huge mistake when I was
> >testing the programme because I pressed spacebar to move on to the
> >next attribute, and when I looked at the data, the attributes order
> >was indeed recorded. I didn't double check if the same would happen if
> >no response was made at all, which was the case for all participants
> >since they were asked to just read each attribute and the next one
> >would appear automatically.
>
> >I guess another reason why I didn't realise this mistake earlier was
> >because I did get a E-DataAid file after each participant - however,
> >there was just one line with the subject, session... and random seed.
> >I know this is very far fetched, but I'm wondering if there is any
> >chance at all that I could somehow retrieve any form of information
> >about the order of trials from the randomseed number?
>
> >Thank you so much!!

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