Daddies and mummies

Fri May 2 19:02:39 UTC 2008

I am Italian, and I too do not feel I can speak for all Italians. But  
as a Tuscan of working class background, I can say the words used by  
the girl actor did not bother me. Maybe we have a different upbringing.
Being direct, argumentative and coming out strong is a positive thing  
and children are exposed to and learn to use fighting words early.

But even in the US there are studies showing that the middle class  
ideal of avoiding foul language esp. in front of children are not  
necessarily shared by everybody.
Working class mothers and minorities may have different views, as in  
the following two articles.

Miller, Peggy 1986.  “Teasing as Language Socialization and Verbal  
Play in a White Working-Class Community.”  In B Schieffelin & E. Ochs  
(Eds.)  Language and Socialization Across Cultures.  Cambridge:  
Cambridge University Press.  (Pp. 51-79).
Eisenberg, Ann 1986.  “Teasing: Verbal Play in Two Mexicano Homes.” In  
B Schieffelin & E. Ochs (eds.) Language and Socialization Across  
Cultures. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. (Pp. 199-212)

Also, Jennifer Reynolds has done studies on Guatemalan Mayan children  
teasing each other and learning fighting words, and the ideologies  
around the definition of "children" and "children in need of  
protection".

As for the movie, I completely I agree with Amy's analysis.

For me, I found the movie kind of boring, nothing new, the usual  
stuff. I was hoping for some parody or turnabout at the end but it did  
not come. I thought it could have been done by a teenager for a  
classroom project. Not really a powerful filmaker.
But itube itself is an interesting phenomenon, to a degree empowering.

Valentina Pagliai
Oberlin College

On May 1, 2008, at 10:52 PM, Amy Sheldon wrote:

> I thought about the consequences to the young girl too and found it  
> very troubling. The possible damage to the child actor became a  
> preoccupation in my reaction to the film.
> Is that preoccupation the effect the film maker was after?  I doubt  
> it.
>
> It seems that there's a means justifies the end mentality in the  
> film that makes the possible harm to the child *actor* become an  
> issue, when it should not be.
>
> What is the artistry of this film?  It re-enacts real life in a  
> *raw* way. Is there no way to give the message about the  
> conscription of onlookers to violence to become violent themselves?  
> Who is the audience...children?  battered women/persons?   It's not  
> a new message either.
>
> So I think there's a side story here about the wisdom or aesthetics  
> of film maker's over use of audience shock treatment to make the  
> point.
> Would the next step be to have the battering become a real event we  
> all are asked to watch for the redeeming value of realizing  
> battering is bad?
>
> Should horrible events be told about in an aesthetic frame?  This is  
> a discussion that has taken place wrt if and how to contextualize  
> and treat the Holocaust (and other horrific events) in an artistic  
> frame,  so that they can be understood and not forgotten.
> Amy Sheldon
>
> On May 1, 2008, at 8:36 PM, Valentina Pagliai wrote:
>
>> Well,
>> The girl seemed to be having a lot of fun at it. And I suppose I  
>> would prefer an awareness of the existence of family violence to a  
>> girl misleaded into believing that certain things don't exist  
>> (until it happens to them). I feel that it is really cultural, for  
>> lack of a better word, the American (but not all Americans)  
>> tendency to hide stuff from children. Personally, I feel it is  
>> better to make children aware as soon as possible of sexism and  
>> oppression, so they can learn to defend themselves.
>> That's my two cents.
>>
>> Valentina Pagliai
>> Oberlin College
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2008, at 9:04 PM, Campbell, Heather wrote:
>>
>>> I must say, I agree with your concerns. Powerful film, but as an  
>>> early childhood educator, I am extremely conflicted about this.  
>>> There was a duty of care towards the wellbeing of the young child  
>>> acting in this film, and I wonder if the possible benefits  
>>> deriving from the film (that is, raising awareness of domestic  
>>> violence and its effect upon children) justify the potential harm  
>>> inflicted upon the child involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Heather Campbell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: International Gender and Language Association [mailto:GALA-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Wagner
>>> Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 9:45 AM
>>> To: GALA-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>> Subject: Re: [GALA-L] Daddies and mummies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All I can think is, what about this young "actor" who is doing  
>>> this?  What is she thinking as she says all of these horrible  
>>> things?  You can't, even in an acting context, make this sound  
>>> like "pretend" can you?  It's an incredible film, unbelievable  
>>> (and incredibly important message of course), but I'm so  
>>> conflicted about the reality of making it.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Megan Crowhurst <mcrowhurst at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
>>> To: GALA-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:09:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [GALA-L] Daddies and mummies
>>>
>>> Well, there's a frighteningly powerful message
>>> about how kids internalize and learn to reproduce
>>> domestic partner abuse.  I'm forwarding this to
>>> our SafePlace volunteer co-ordinator...
>>>
>>>
>>> At 10:25 PM +0200 5/1/08, Goretty Robles Fernández wrote:
>>> >I'm speechless.
>>> >http://www.metacafe.com/watch/336489/papas_y_mamas_daddies_mummies/
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Megan J. Crowhurst, Ph.D.
>>> Associate Professor
>>>
>>> Graduate Advisor, Linguistics
>>> All advising email should go to megancrowhurst at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Snail mail address:
>>>
>>> The University of Texas at Austin
>>> Dr. Crowhurst
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> 1 University Station B5100
>>> Austin, TX  78712-5100
>>> USA
>>>
>>> Phone:  512-471-1701
>>> Fax:    512-471-4340
>>>
>>> My home page: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~crowhurs/index.html
>>> Department home page: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/linguistics/
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~ 
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>

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