[gothic-l] Re: Introduction of myself.

[Axeage]

THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL WRITE CONCERNING THIS ISSUE, IT IS 
GETTING TOO FAR OFF THE TOPIC OF THIS MESSAGE FORUM...

In gothic-l at egroups.com, Manuel Gutierrez Algaba <irmina at c...> wrote:

>> DURING THE MESOLITHIC AND NEOLITHIC PERIODS. OBVIOUSLY, THEIR 
>> PRESENCE WAS STRONGEST IN THE IBERIAN PENINSULA - BUT THEY ALSO 
>> SETTLED IN LARGE NUMBERS IN AQUITANIA (GASCONY), SOUTHERN ENGLAND, 
>>WALES, THE WESTERN COASTS OF IRELAND AND SCOTLAND, AND EVEN THE 
>>WESTERN COASTS OF NORWAY...
 
> Incredible! Iberians in Norway, first news of it. 

...THIS IS TAKEN FROM RENOWNED ANTHROPOLOGIST CARLETON COON'S BOOK 
"THE RACES OF EUROPE" CHAPTER XI, SECTION 15 'THE IBERIAN PENINSULA':

"...During the third millennium B.C., food-producing peoples entered 
Spain from North Africa with swine, sheep, and goats, and with 
barley, emmer, and other plants. The physical type of these invaders 
is well known to us, not only through skeletal remains, but also by 
means of our study of the living peoples of North Africa. Some of 
these invaders remained in Spain and Portugal, where they became the 
basic populations of these countries; others passed northward over 
the Pyrenees into eastern France and Switzerland, while still others 
passed northward as far as Germany, and into the British Isles.

Toward the beginning of the second millennium B.C., if not earlier, 
these agricultural colonists were reënforced by a people of much 
higher culture, the megalith-building tall Mediterraneans, who came 
by sea, and many of whom went on from Spain as far as the British 
Isles and Scandinavia. Their settlements in Spain were located mostly 
upon the eastern seaboard, and on the northern Atlantic coast, 
particularly in the region of the Bay of Biscay. They are followed by 
other peoples of a general Mediterranean type, but coming from Asia 
Minor, as their exaggerated nasal form indicates. These new invaders 
brought the knowledge of metal with them from the east, and were the 
first of the prospectors to visit this metal-rich peninsula. They in 
turn were followed by round-headed compatriots with the same nasal 
peculiarities, who introduced the Dinaric racial type to western 
Europe... In post-Roman times Germanic invaders, the Goths and 
Vandals, brought a second Nordic infusion to the peninsula..."

...IT ALL REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT IS AN "IBERIAN" IN YOUR VIEW. FOR 
SOME, THE IBERIANS WERE ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO SETTLED ALONG THE EBRO 
RIVER. OTHERS THINK THAT THEY SETTLED ALONG ALL OF THE EASTERN COAST, 
WHILE OTHERS THINK THAT "IBERIAN" MEANT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT SETTLED 
THE IBERIAN PENINSULA BEFORE THE FIRST INDO-EUROPEAN INVASIONS, 
INCLUDING THOSE WHO LIVED ALONG THE NORTHERN COASTS(THE ONES OF WHICH 
SOME REACHED LANDS FARTHER UP NORTH). IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE - THEN 
YES, YOU CAN SAY THAT "IBERIANS" REACHED AS FAR AS NORWAY...

>But, again, we're mixed.

HERE IS MORE FROM COON'S BOOK. SAME CHAPTER...

"Despite the complex political history of Spain, the living 
population is basically and almost wholly Mediterranean... more than 
one Mediterranean strain is obviously involved. The head form is 
almost everywhere mesocephalic;not even in Andalusia does a Moorish 
or Arab degree of dolichocephaly prevail. 

Two widely observed racial characters serve to differentiate the 
Spaniards from most of the living inhabitants of Arabia and North 
Africa: hair color and nasal profile. In Spain, as a whole, some 29 
per cent of the male population has black hair, some 68 per cent dark 
brown, while traces of blondism are visible in 17 per cent. In most 
of North Africa and Arabia, the black hair is commoner than the dark 
brown. The nasal profiles of some 120,000 Spaniards are convex in 15 
per cent of cases, straight in 72 per cent, and concave in 13 per 
cent. In Arabia and North Africa east of Morocco, the commonest 
profile form is usually convex, and coneaves are very rare. The 
prevalence of these two features - dark brown hair and a straight 
nasal profile, indicates that the bulk of the Spanish population is 
derived from the earlier Mediterranean In-vasions of Mesolithic and 
Neolithic date. 

...Another useful series is one of 420 adult males from Andalusia, 
representing the most brunet population in Spain, and the one which 
supposedly contains the most Arab and Berber blood. 
Sixty per cent have dark brown hair, 30 per cent black hair. The 
remaining 10 per cent show some evidence of blondism or of rufosity. 
Only one man out of 420 was truly blond. The hair is straight in half 
the series, wavy in a third, and curly in a sixth. Sixty per cent of 
Andalusians have pure brown eyes, of which the majority are dark 
brown, although light brown and mixed-brown irises occur. Mixed-light 
eyes comprise 30 per cent of the series, with a prevalence of 
greenish-brown shades, while 10 per cent of the whole sample 
possesses bluish-gray eyes, on the gray rather than blue side. A 
ratio of 40 per cent of light or incipiently light eyes is higher 
than one expects to find among racially pure Mediterraneans, and 
indicates the infusion of Nordic blood, from both North European and 
Berber sources. Probably if the rest of Spain were studied for eye 
color in the same way, higher ratios of eye blondism would appear 
elsewhere, since most of the green-brown eyes in this sample are 
predominantly dark... 


The racial character of the richer, city-dwelling Moors of Andalusia. 
before the time of their expulsion, may be suggested by a study of 
the almost wholly unmixed descendants of these émigrés in
Morocco. In 
the city of Sheshawen the old, aristocratic families are descended 
from the former aristocrats of Granada, and have lived endogamously 
since 1492. A little Ruffian blood has crept in, but aside from that 
the She-sbawen families remain an island of Andalusian Moors on 
Moroccan soil. A small, homogeneous sample of these people shows a 
much closer relationship with Spain than with Morocco. They are a 
little longer-headed (194.5 mm.), a little more dolichocephalic (C. 
I. = 76.5) and a little longer-faced (123 mm.) than the Christian 
Andalusians; the bigonial diameter of 103 mm., although wide for 
Spain as a whole, is of Andalusian size. The Sheshawen Moors have 
predominantly dark brown hair and dark brown eyes, with brunet-white 
skin color. In facial morphology, they are fully Andalusian. The 
implication is that the Moors in Spain took more from the population 
of the peninsula, in a racial sense, than they gave. Our earlier 
conclusion that the Andalusians are Mediterraneans of largely 
Neolithic derivation is supported by this unexpected evidence."
 
...SPANIARDS ARE NOT AS MIXED OR SEMITIC AS PEOPLE BELIEVE, BUT YOU 
SEEM TO BE AS CERTAIN THAT THEY(WE) ARE AS MUCH AS I AM THAT THEY(WE) 
ARE NOT. BUT IF YOU INSIST ON IT, FINE...

> Lactis, lactis --> milk.
> Joe's horse --> the apostrophe is to replace the "i".
> -is is the desinence of property ( the genitive).

OK, I GET IT NOW. 

>> THE VANDALS ARE ANOTHER TRIBE THAT ALSO HAVE AN UNFAIRLY BAD 
REPUTATION. 
 
> Yes, they only robbed, raped and kill... Byzantinus killed them
> in North Africa.

...WOMEN CAN GET PREGNANT FROM BEING RAPED.
 
>> THEY DID TRY TO FINALLY SETTLE DOWN IN ANDALUSIA WITH THEIR NEW 
>> FAMILIES, BUT THE VISIGOTHS KCIKED THEM OUT. IRONIC ISIN'T IT? 
 
> Why ironic? That was their work.

...IRONIC BECAUSE THE VANDALS WERE IN A SIMILAR POSITION TO THE 
GOTHS. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A PLACE WHERE THEY COULD FINALLY SETTLE 
DOWN, BUT IN THE ROMAN'S EYES - THEY WERE NOTHING BUT PESTS TO GET 
RID OFF. THE ROMANS WERE NOT TOO FOND OF NEITHER THE GOTHS NOR THE 
VANDALS, SO THEY USED ONE AGAINST THE OTHER, FIGUIRING THAT IT WOULD 
BE NO BIG LOSS IF THEY KILLED EACH OTHER.

CARL,






--------------------------------------------------------------------<e|-
Missing old school friends? Find them here:
http://click.egroups.com/1/8015/8/_/3398/_/966639049/
--------------------------------------------------------------------|e>-