[gothic-l] Introduction of myself.

Thu Jul 20 23:52:31 UTC 2000

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I'm a student of Computer Science (last year, last subject). I
strongly believe that Computer Science is strongly related to
linguistics ( more than to maths or engineering). For example,
lots of AI problems have a strong linguistic flavour.
I programm in python, tcl, expect and Java , I like AI.
I like History in general. And I enjoy to know how the pieces
of puzzles fit. Specially in the matter of indoeuropean languages,
recently I've learned many funny things:
- Tavos ( lithuanian) has the same meaning that teva ( catalonian)
, and they're separated by thousands of years and kilometers .
- Punjab ( the region in the india) means Five rivers region,
and punt == penta == quinto = five , ab == abhain (gaelic) = amnis
(latin) == river
- vratya ( punjabi) == brodar (gothic) == brudar (german) == barozar
(iranian)

This sort of incredible "coincidences" and the fact that all
europe and a great bunch of Asia speak the same language ( with
strong and specific derivations ) is exciting.

Moreover, Visigothics are an important part of Spanish history.
>From V century to VIII , with the arab invasion. They didn't
bring new ideas, but some of our current Spanish vocabulary is
based on Gothic words, mainly of war issues. So an understanding
of Gothic is a bit of understanding of my own (rich) culture.

I want to state clear that I'm not a nazi and that I don't
like Gothic music, but  Depeche Mode and techno-pop general. It
 seems to me you
have to have known a bit of these. Although some drops of
Gothic blood may run my veins, I'm more than sure that I have
more of :
- Latin
- Iberian ( in any of their flavour tribes)
- Arab
- Jew
- Greek

In the list , I'd like to complete some new pieces of the puzzles,
plus discuss some Spanish words of Visigothic origin, the
influence of Gothic in Spanish.
Perhaps , Spain was the country with more important Gothic culture,
in Italy they were anihilated by Bizantinus, and in North Europe
they were replaced by more "active" germanic tribes. The Bible
of that Bishop and origin of most of Gothic language we have and
_only_ written document of Germanic languages before IX century
was written in Spain.

There's a part of spain (Palencia, more or less in the
 Central-North-west) where they settled massively, and  there you
can find lots of towns with Gothic names.

Regretfully , the arab invasion of VIII century messed things a little
and probably all the goths living there moved to the North coast,
a mountainous zone. So it's difficult /not to say impossible to
trace back which zones belong to "some races". Spain is a great
mix of cultures.

Andalucia , the place where I live, Andalucia comes from Vandalus
(another germanic tribe), well, here there're even settlements
of German and French people during the XVIII century. We have not
the racial "histeric-stupidness" that rules in some parts
of Europe (Austria, Czeck republic).

And I have a question for you, I've heard that "Gutierrez" is
gothic  and it means "the man who leads the army". In Sanskrit
Goptri (-->Gupta) (probably related to it)
 means "the man who leads the army",
too.

 So, does it have that meaning ?

To feed discussion, some words of Spanish (of probable Gothic
origin):

- bregar : to struggle
- azafata : stewardess
- guerra : war , guerrilla is the diminutive.
- blanco : white
- estribo : -
- rodrigo : stick placed in the earth (?)
- cofia : stuff that woman servants wear in the head.

Some famous Spanish Visigothic kings (there 20 or 30):
- Wamba
- Recaredo
- Leovigildo
- Recesvinto

I imagine that those names have meanings. Richard is simply
Rich heart= generous.

What's more? , in V century 100,000 visigothics invaded Spain,
controlling a 6,000,000 million strong country, not so
"industrialized" as Italy, but with important cities and rich
agriculture. Spain was then (probably) the second Western Europe
country
in terms of population and economy. BTW, it was Hispania (
Spain + Portugal). For almost two centuries, they had the military
control and they mixed with the local latin nobleness.

For a time they behave as invaders. They had their own code,
they spoke their own language and their own Christian flavour
(arrianismus). They spent all the time quarrelling each other or
fighting with other germanic invaders (Suevus in nort-west)
, Vandalus (south), or Bizantium (well, these are not germanic)
in the south.

Somehow, arab invasion was promoted by  internal factions of
nobles, and a cause of the fast arab invasion (less than 10 years,
while the Romans took 200+ years) was their poor political structure
and how bad they have fit in the Hispania society by VIII century.

Even so, by VIII century Visigothics could be considered Spanish
and not invaders any more.

In VIII century "Reconquista" started, and "loyal Christian Goths
and some other loyal Spanish and High-lands (cantabrus) people"
started to conquer all the land arab have occupied, the only arab-free
land was in Asturias (in the mountains of the north).
For the next 7 centuries , till XV century,... , the lost Visigothic
state was a remembrance of an ideal world. The Christian militaristic
society of the Northern Spain somehow hold part of the "values" and
"language" of Goths embedded in  a somehow low-level evolved form of
Latin.
 Southern
Spain was always much more advanced and literate, so they had a
better and purer Latin. Well "Reconquista" conditioned Spain
history till XX century, and it brought unexpected results like:
- The born of Portugal, as nation. Well, Aragon-Catalunya too.
- The discovery of America ( suddenly  there were no arabs in
Spain, so they had to continue fighting and conquering, first
in North Africa, then America).

Most kings (Leon-Castillian) I can remember have Gothic
names:
- Pelayo (?)
- Fernando (Ferdinand)
- Alfonso X
- Sancho IV

And some other names, like :
- Beltran

Regards/Saludos
Manolo
www.ctv.es/USERS/irmina    /TeEncontreX.html   /texpython.htm
/pyttex.htm /cruo/cruolinux.htm ICQ:77697936 (sirve el ICQ para algo?)

  Cold, adj.: When the politicians walk around with their hands in their own pockets.

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