[gothic-l] Re: Germanic Migrations

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, keth at o... wrote:
> Dirk wrote:
> 
> >Hi, below are the answers given to me by Prof. Elert a Swedish
> >linguist about the problem of the origin of 
Germanic/Proto-Germanic.
> >(the numbered questions are from me, the answer/view below was 
given
> >by Prof. Elert).
> >
> >> Dear Dr. Dirk Faltin,
> >My answwers to your questions:
> >>(1)  I would like to know if the the whole text is available in
> >English?
> >Answer: No.
> >>
> >(2) Can you clarify for me when, in your view, the settlement of
> >Germanic/Proto-Germanic people of  Scandinavia started?
> >
> >My view is that the spread of the Germanic language took place in
> >1000-500 BC, most likely around 700 BC. I would not use the word
> >"settlement" . There is no reason to assume an invasion or massive
> >migration, rather a language shift.
> 
> All this agrees with opinions stated by other linguists on the
> net some years ago, an opinion that seemed convincing to me,
> which is why I remembered it, and also used the year 700 BC
> in my post a few days ago. Note that 700 BC is just a few centuries
> before the beginning of the Iron Age in Scandinavia.
> My own speculation was that the expansion of the early
> Germans had something to do with their early ability
> to use iron. But at the same time I should like to
> maintain that the language spoken in major parts of
> South Scandinavia (Skagen/Kattegat/Øresund area + Baltic islands)
> before the arisal of Proto-Germanic was a variety of Indo-European,
> which had been spoken there during the whole Bronze Age
> as well as during part of the Neolithic.
> 
> 

Hi Keth,

yes I agree. This view is infact already mainstream thinking and the 
evidence has been accepted by people like Patrick Geary, Peter Brown 
etc. It is a shame that people like Lucien Musset failed to 
incorporate these views in his latest book and only repeated/reprinted 
what he said in his 1975 book on Germanic Migrations.

Dirk

> 
> 
> 
> 
> >(3) and possibly from which site?
> >
> >It is generally assumed that there was a Germanic-speaking 
population
> >in parts of NW Germany aroudn 1000 BC. The hypothetic language 
shift
> >could be due to influence (and limited migration) fron this area 
into
> >Scandinavia. Other possibilities cannot be excluded. The Bronze Age
> >is
> 
> Professor Elert does say here, though, that "it is an assumption".
> In other words, the old default idea of "Germanic from Germania".
> 
> There may however exist reasons for why such an assumption has been
> made. One reason may have been a "principle of continuity" in 
connection
> with an idea of "the shortest distance" as the most likely
> possibility. The "shortest distance" here would be the distance to
> Italy, where I have heard that the ancient Venetians form an
> important piece of the puzzle. Anybody care to comment on this?
> 
> Keth
> 
> 
> 
> >period of much commerce and other connections between tribal
> >societies
> >in Europe. There are linguistic traces of  early contacts between
> >Germanic and the Baltic languages.
> >Yours,
> >Claes-Christian Elert
> >
> >
> >
> >As Elert is seen as leading expert on Scandinavian linguistics, I
> >thought his views should be interesting to others on the list. His
> >views are in line with recent linguistic research on Germanic
> >language
> >development by Juergen Udolph. Both Udolph and Elert are seen as
> >'cutting edge' on the subject.
> >
> >Dirk
> >
> >


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