[gothic-l] Re: The Langobards from Scania/Scadanan

[Bengt Hemtun]

Thanks Dirk

 for bringing in archaeology to the discussion. I do not trust in 
occasional Roman notes about tribes without archaeological physical 
evidence confirming. The Scandinavians were Germanic people and they 
belonged to the Celts and at least some belonged to the Swebian 
league some finds show. I note also the Celtic neck-ring in Northern 
Germany and the biggest found in Poland!
.
The linguists tell that the Scandinavian languages are Germanic. The 
Gothic is an East Germanic language according to my Oxford concise. 
Is there any kinship there? I mean between Gothic and Germanic people.
Once I made a list of German tribes mentioned by Tacitus 55 - 120 AD. 
This does not mean that he knew all German tribes!
The listed tribes are a pick-out from the books about Germania with 
the number mentioned if given.
.
Angli third of seven tribes at Anglia (Aviones, Nuithones, Suardones, 
Teutones, etc.) Germania 40
Angrivari at Allers/Wesser together with Chamaves they banished the 
Brukts Germania 33 
Chasuari and Chattuari inland Frisia
Batavi was a Chatti tribe on an island at the mouth of Rhine Germania 
29
Burgundians at Weichsel pacified in 250 AD and in 277 AD north of 
Alamanni near Mainz
Chatti were the dominating tribe living on the other side of the 
Mattiakes. J Grimm tells they lived in Hessenin and were together 
with the Frisi the only survivors of the old tribes. Germania 30
Chauki inland of Frisia and neighbour to the Chatti
Cheruski in the same neighbourhood.
Dulgibini and Chattuari Germania 34 
Fenni, Venede, Slav, Peucini Germania 46
Fosi neighbour to the Cheruski Germani 36
Hellusii and Oxioni with human face on animal body lived in 
Scandinavia
Hermundurii later called Thüringians lived around the wells of Elbe 
at Werra and Saale Germania 41 
Kvades in Mähren Germania 42
Lombards downstreams Elbe alied with the Kvades after being defeated 
by Tiberius
Lemovi and Rugi in Pommern 
Lugi. Hari, Helvecons, Manimi, Helisi at Riesengebirge and the Sudets 
Germania 43
Marcomanni in Bohemia
Mattiaci south Batavians near Wiesbaden Germania 39
Naharnavales. Warthe 
Nariski near the Hermunduri (Thuringians) Germania 42
Nemeti, Vangini, Tribokes on the shores of Rhine
Nervij at Eiffel near Sambre and Schelde
Semnoni most noble in the Suebian league
Suebi consisted of 54 tribes (Orosius) from Danube to the North Sea 
such as Alamanni, Kvades, Semnoni, Marcomanni Germania 58
Tenkteri near Cologne Germania 32 
Ubians at Cologne
Usipetes at Bingen Germania 32
 
I am sorry if I have not get all the endings right. My Latin could be 
better. The texts are translated from Swedish.
The list does not get them all but is still a time cut from the age 
of Tacitus. I see that Ptolemeius have some more names at the coasts 
on the Baltic Seas Surely he knew some Scandinavian that informed him 
about some of the tribes in Scandinavia too.
I note that the tribes Chali, Charudes, Chedini have the same prefix 
CH as Cheruski, Chatti, Chauki whatever that means. Some question 
marks it sets ????? 
.
Tacitus also mention Ingvaeones, Istvaenones an Hermiones but I think 
that was categories of ritual league Tacitus 22
The Suebi were a great league of 54 tribes (Orosius). which covered 
the former Celtic area around Halstatt and La Tene. The culture in 
Halstatt began in about 800 BC and the salt trade was an important 
part in the labour of about 800 people. "Celtic fields" are 
significant elements in that culture too and they are found from 
Vistula, Poland to Scotland and in north to the plains in Scandinavia.
Once they were a threat to the Romans in Raetia. At least the noble 
used to make a "Suebian knot" in their hair. We find that pictured on 
at least one golden brakteat in Scandinavia. Such things put ants in 
the hair and give new questions. 
.
Naharnavalian priests wore long shirt and were together with two 
Alces. Their rituals were hold in the woods. Still in the cellar of a 
church at Rügen we find that priest with a horn engraved in a stone. 
We find him also on one of the horns from Gallehus. Normally the 
attribute horn should connect him to the moon and fertility. Again 
more new questions.
Observe no specific German tribe ever existed. German means "brother" 
and is just a category and they could become "foederati" and work and 
own property in the Roman Empire. To be a citizen fast you needed a 
billion bugs.
Cheers
catshaman

 
--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, dirk at s... wrote:
> Bertil,
> 
> it is possible that a small Langobardic group maybe a royal clan 
came 
> to the main Langobardic settlement area in North Germany from 
> Scandinavia. The archaelogical evidence cannot prove or disprove
> this.  However, it must be borne in mind that the Langobard's 
> historical account was influenced by that of the Ostrogoth who they 
> may have seen as examples. The Langobardic history was written some 
> 700 to 800 years after the supposed migration from Scadanan. 
Stories 



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