[gothic-l] Re: The Scandinavian Origin (to Axeage)

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

The following is not scientific evidence at any strech of
imaginagtion, but may be interesting as anecdotal indication...
Firstly, in view of the physical appearance of Goths there is one and
I think it is the only one, true portrait of a Goths (even a member
of
the Amal family). This portrait is of King Theodahat on his rare
Follis coins, probably minted at Rome. I have one exemplar in
excellent condition and of the best naturalistic style, but a picture
of a less naturalistic style exemplar can be seen in Felix Dahn's
book. From this coin Theodahat seemed to have had a round head/skull
unlike the 'typical' nordic long-skulls. But again this is not
intended to serve as  evidence for intermarriage, especially as
Theodahat seemed to have been quite a fat man too, which may obscure
his physiognomy. Yet, the portrait is still interesting, as it is the
only way to 'come face to face' with a Goth.

The other anecdotal evidence is that of the blood of nobility beeing
'blue'. This tale is said to originate from medieval Spain, when
commoners, i.e. non-noble native Spaniards,  noted that nobles (of
presumably Visigothic origin) had lighter skin which is more
transparent to show the blue veins, i.e. the blue blood. If the
origin of this tale is correct, it might be an indication that
Visigoths in Spain maintained some of their 'northern' appearance
until quite late.

Dirk







--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "B. Gendler" <gendler at i...> wrote:
>
>
> ----------
> "Axeage " <axeage at h...> wrote:
>
> > I also believed that by the time the Visigoths arrived and
settled
in
> > Spain and southern France, and the Ostrogoths in Italy that they
were
> > no longer the same people (racially and ethnically) who crossed
the
> > Baltic from Scandinavia due to intermarriage with iranians, huns,
> > slavs, romans, etc...but so far, all anthropological evidence I
have
> > seen indicates otherwise.
>
>   We do know that they mixed, however, and not always through
marriage
> either. Wulfila for instance, was not of Gothic descent. His
ancestors were
> captives. Through the generations, their standings changed, so that
by the
> time of Wulfila, he was considered a "Goth."
>   One thing to consider, apart from that, is that many of the
peoples with
> whom the Goths mixed with were more probably other Germans with
genetic
> origins similar to those of the Goths, i.e. Scandinavian, than say
Iranians,
> for example. We could probably expect more of a mixing with
Germanic
peoples
> because the linguistic barrier would not be as great. This pertains
mostly
> to joiners. Marriages probably took place within the tribe, or by
plundering
> the women of other tribes.
>   A large influx of non-Gothic Germans into the Gothic nation would
alter
> their genetic pool very lttle. As Bertil has shown us, most of
these
other
> tribes that the Goths would have had contact with also had
Scandinavian
> origins.
>      Gendler.


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