[gothic-l] Re: The Goths in Poland...

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

Hi, thanks for the replies. I basically agree. I found the theory
about the Prussian also quite 'strange'. One would have to look at
the
archaeological evidence cited by the author. However, I spend some
time in Kaliningrad (former German Koenigsberg in East Prussia) where
somebody at the regional historical archive, which has a collection
of
Prussian artefacts, explained to me that the Prussians (Prussen) had
strong links with the Black Sea Ostrogoths because of the amber
trade.
I suppose some form of backward migration could be explained along
these lines. A linguistic comparison of Old Prussian and Gothic would
be difficult, as parts of the Samland (Sambia) was settled by Swedish
Vikings and from the 11th/12th century Old Prussian started to borrow
from German.

Dirk


--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Svein Nestor" <NESTOR at s...> wrote:
> To:             	gothic-l at egroups.com
> From:           	"Francisc Czobor" <czobor at c...>
> Date sent:      	Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:30:59 -0000
> Send reply to:  	gothic-l at egroups.com
> Subject:        	[gothic-l] Re: The Goths in Poland...
>
>
> I do not know whether this is of any relevance for the present
> discussion, and I have no opinion of my own on this subject, but
> the Lithuanian word gudas means a Byelorussian.
>
> Svein Nestor
>
> > Hails, Dirk
> >
> > I have heard about the Wielbark culture, which is attributed to
an
> > East Germanic people (if I remember correctly, some authors
attribute
> > it rather to the Vandals, but I'm not sure).
> > The last supposition of that article seems to me a little dubious:
> > how could the Goths who returned to North Poland become the
Baltic
> > tribe of the Prussians? The old Prussians spoke a Baltic
language,
> > related to Latvian and Lithuanian, but with distinct features,
which
> > are not due to a Gothic influence. Thus, the Prussians can not be
> > regarded as balticized descendants of the Goths (in the best
case,
it
> > could be assumed that the Goths who returned in North Poland were
> > assimilated by the local Prussians).
> >
> > Francisc
> >
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, dirk at s... wrote:
> > > Did anybody read the article "The Goths in Poland - Where did
they
> > > come from and when did they leave" by Przemyslaw Urbanczyk in
> > > European
> > >  Journal of Archaelogy (Vol. 1, Issue 3, 1 Dec. 1998)?
> > > I only read a short summary, but found the arguments quite
> > > interesting
> > > and would be interested to hear from anyone who knows the
article,
> > if
> > > it is worth getting.
> > >
> > > The author's argumentation seem to be based on the Wielbark
cultur
> > as
> > > a fairly stable group of people in modern North Poland. He
regards
> > > the
> > > departure of the Goths to the Black Sea at the end of the 2nd
> > century
> > > as only one episode in the history of the Wielbark culture,
where
> > > probably an elite group that represented the 'Gothic identity'
> > > decided
> > > to leave the area, while most people actually stayed behind.
Those
> > > people who stayed behind developed a new elite, which later
decided
> > > to
> > > follow the emigrants to the Black Sea. This second group became
the
> > > Gepids. The author cites archaelogical evidence to argue that
parts
> > > of
> > > the Goths from the Black Sea later moved back to the Baltic Sea
and
> > > in
> > > the 9th century 'became more and more Prussian' (i.e. forming
the
> > > Baltic tribe of the Prussen).
> > >
> > > I have never read this before. So if anybody knows more about
this
> > > kind of interpretation, I would be interested to hear about it.
> > >
> > > Dirk
> >
> >
> >
> > You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a
blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscri
> be at egroups.com>.
> > Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html
> >


-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Restaurants, Movies, Weather, Traffic & More!
Access Tellme from any phone.  For more info visit:
http://click.egroups.com/1/9534/8/_/3398/_/971263027/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html