[gothic-l] problems with evolution of Gothic vowel system

[Manuel Gutierrez Algaba]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Vito Evola wrote:
> 
> 2)  Would there be anyone willing to put on the list the evolution of the 
> vowel system IE < *germ. < goth.  ?

If I recall correctly (IIRC), indoeuropean (which modern Lituanian
and Sanskrit are their purest examples ??) did have a relative
simple system of vowels , maybe 8-10.

Skandinavian languages were rather innovative and they invented 
a lots of sounds. 

German was more conservative but even so it has too much vowels,
they have three "e" while Spanish/Latin has only one. 

> 
> 3)  I'm particularly having problems understanding the evolution of the word 
> for pastor or shepherd:

Well, when thinking in Gothic, think about the places they were:
Greece, Romania (when they speak pure latin), France (with Celts
and latin) and Spain (with very fine latin). Well, there's a common
denominator in all of them : less vowels and predominance of 
vocalic over consonantic. Gothic , by sure, spoke Greek and Latin
for commercial (wheat in Crimea, 5 b.c...) and then more and more
Latin and greek. Considering the link Iranian ( a rather conservative
language too, they still have the "ku" form for the interrogative )
has with Scitians and considering that Iranian has few sounds.
Then, it's easy to imagine that Gothic should have been a kind 
of "vocalic" germanic. 

> 
>           *germ. herdijaz < goth. haìrdeis

The difference between ai-e is that ai tends to be more vocalic. 
herdijaz is closer to hrdijaz that hairdeis. Consider vocalic
as that the ratio vowel/consonants tends to get higher.

Now, the -ijaz , -eis . I suspect that both endings are different.
I'd bet for hairde -is. The man of the hairde , being -is a genitive. 
While -ijaz could be -ija-z . -z for genitive and -ija a suffix
for creating jobs, like justit-ia, vig-ia (Spanish) , milit-ia
or a class for jobs. That -ija (indoeuropean ) ending was lost in
German while kept in Latin. 

I remind you, to take this with a grain of salt.. As I'm an
aficionado not a proffesional :)

Anyway, don't be too hard, I don't use books and I take all this
from my head so I can do some big mistakes. :)

> vito.evola at libero.it

Well, being Italian you have Latin+Italian+English to compare :)

BTW, I've always thought that the "anomalities" in Italian 
(suppousedly, closer to Latin than Spanish) came from Goths or
Lombards (which one ). I mean thing like:
gli <-- the 

Regards/Saludos
Manolo
www.ctv.es/USERS/irmina    /TeEncontreX.html   /texpython.htm
/pyttex.htm /cruo/cruolinux.htm ICQ:77697936 (sirve el ICQ para algo?)

  QOTD: "I used to be lost in the shuffle, now I just shuffle along with the lost."



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