[gothic-l] Re: Goths in the East

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

It is certainly conceivable that (small parts) of the Goths remained 
in South Russia, but to equate the Rus with the Goths is far fetched. 
For one thing the Slavs would probably not have referred to the Goths 
as the 'Red-Blonde People', because, at least prior to the mongol 
tatar yoke the Slavs were just as blonde as the Goths may have been. 
I found the  following site about the Rus 

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9253/rus.html

The author argues that the Rus were in fact a slavic tribe, however,
I 
find the evidence for a Swedish-Viking origin of the Rus somewhat
more 
compelling. 

regards

Dirk 


--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, Bertil Häggman <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Well, not all Goths migrated westward and
> of course the origin of the meaning of Rus is
> one of the great debates of the 20th century.
> In Russia-Ukraine it is claimed that Rus is
> of Slavic origin (the anti-normanists) and earlier
> at least  Scandinavian researchers connected
> Rus with (mainly) Swedish vikings. Gaardarike
> was even for some time called 'Sweden the Great and
> the Cold' (Svithjod in mikla edha in kalda, Heimskringla 4.9)
> The theory among normanists is that the origin
> of the Rus is to find in Roslagen, a province north
> of Stockholm. But if the Rus came from Sweden
> there is no other evidence of a people named Rus
> in Sweden at the time of Viking travel in Russia.
> 
> The basis of the Second Great Gothic Kingdom was
> naturally created during the time the Goths resided
> in the area. The most famous Gothic ruler was of
> course Ermanarik. His kingdom was destroyed by
> the Huns between let us say 370 and 380 AD. Some
> Goths migrated, other remained in the East. One of
> the Gothic kingdoms in the East was on Crimea.
> After the fall of the Huns the remaining Goths 
> created a new kingdom. Their Slavic neigbours called
> the Gothic masters Rus ("The Red-Blond People).
> 
> The Goths of the Great Kingdom in the East demonstrated
> the same qualities as the Goths elsewhere: a military and
> naval strength coupled with a remarkable inability to maintain
> the political and cultural independence. There was a over-
> willingness to integrate with other cultures and giving up their
> ethnic identity, their religion, their language and culture. In
> the east the mechanisms of decline were slower than in the west.
> The result was a total Slavization of these Goths and a religious-
> cultural dependence on Byzantium.
> 
> The Viking influence in Russia was limited and only possible
> within the framework of the Gothic kingdom of the Rus which
> already existed when the Vikings arrived.
> 
> Gothically 
> 
> Bertil
> 
> > If you mean the origin of the name "Rus", "Russia", as I 
understood it, the 
> > word "Russian " at first meant not Slavs or Goths but the Vikings 
who set up 
> > the Rurikid kingdom in parts of what is now Russia. A Byzantine 
emperor 
> > (Constantinus Porphyrogenitus?) wrote a book called "Description 
of Russia", 
> > including a list of names of several rapids which were navigation 
hazards on 
> > the river Dnieper on the trade route between Scandinavia and 
Constantinople; 
> > it lists "Slavonic" names and "Russian" names, and the Russian" 
names are 
> > distorted versions of Old Norse, e.e. "ulborsi" = "holm-fors" = 
`island 
> > cataract'. (The correcponding "Slavonic" name is "ostrobuniprakh" 
= modern 
> > "ostrovnyy porog".) Perhaps those Vikings included some from 
Gotland; but the 
> > Goths as we know them were likely long gone away west. I read
that 
the word 
> > "Rus" came from an Old Norse word meaning "rowers", or
perhaps"men 
from 
> > Rodhrsland"..


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