[gothic-l] Re: The Several Shapes of Gaut

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

Very interesing! However, perhaps I shall be carefull not to put to
much into this  depiction. As I said, scholars have so far explained
the choice of the  Mars-reverse with the fact that it is the easiest
to copy, as opposed to the many other reverse designes on Roman
denars. By this explanation all the other signs are mere space
fillers. On the other hand, Mars, if the Goths recognised the
depiction as such, or at least a warrior with a spear, must have been
more attractive to warklike Goths than Diana, Laetitia, Fortuna or
other godessess on Roman coins.  Note, that other Germanic tribes
such
as the Franks and Alamanns have imitated Roman coins in the 3rd and
4th Cent. (e.g. so called Barbarous Radiates). However, these coins
are really crude imitations and the die sinker has not added anything
of his own imagery to the design. If the Goths made these coins
(which
seem increasingly likely) and if some of the signs on the coins or at
least the choice of the Mars design was deliberate, this would make
these coins into a semi-imitative/semi-national series, which is very
significant.

Dirk

--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Le Bateman" <LeBateman at N...> wrote:
> It is possible that the god with the spear is Gautr, which Grimm
also
> identified with Odin. But he should also have ravens or wolves with
him.
> Could the Brackets be runes. I am not sure the Roman Mars who
perhaps was a
> refined and elder Ares was not depicted with a spear. Ares never
had
a
> beard.
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dirk at s...>
> To: <gothic-l at egroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:01 AM
> Subject: [gothic-l] Re: The Several Shapes of Gaut
>
>
> > Very interesting coments. I have pointed out earlier that Russian
> > scholars attribute a certain series of imitative coins in the
Black
> > Sea area to the Goths. These coins are based on Marcus Aurelius
> > denari
> > with the walking Mars reverse. Kazamanova, speculated that the
Goths
> > have chosen the Mars design because it was easiest to copy. From
your
> > comments, saying that Jordanes said that the Goths worshiped
Mars,
a
> > different explanation comes to mind. Are the Goths depicting their
> > god
> > on these coins? This would add to the list of evidence that these
> > coins really were made by at least parts of the Gothic tribal
> > confederation at the Black Sea. Togther with the crude figure of
Mars
> > (a person with a spear) there are also different signs on the
flan,
> > which may just be space filler or as Kazamanova said a system to
> > distinguish different issues. These signs are normally
combinations
> > of
> >  X and O (i.e. XX, XO, OX, OO) and some others. However, around
the
> > head of Mars there is always a braket typ sign on each side, thus
> > surrounding and engulfing the head of Mars,  which does not really
> > have a correspondence on the model coins. Can anybody think of an
> > explanation? You referred to the moon symbol and its
> > significance. Could these brakets be half-moons on each side of
> > the head? Also, the emperor's head on the obverse is totally
degraded
> > into a small  object within a sunburst on the later coins.
Kazamanova
> > said that there are parallels to  designs of the Wilbark culture
> > found
> > in East Prussia. Can anybody point to a book or anything were
such
an
> > object is depicted? To sea a picture of such a coin, the best and
> > only place outside Russian literature is Zograph, A.N. Ancient
> > coinage, Oxford, British Archaelogical Reports, 1977.
> >
> > Dirk
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "sunburst" <sunburst at j...> wrote:
> > > Hails Bertil!
> > >
> > > >It is true that Gaut is associated with Odin as a warrior
> > > >god, but Gaut was also a High god, a creator god and
> > > >a heavenly god.
> > >
> > > Which might indicate a connection with Tiw.  Also, Jordanes
> > mentions
> > that
> > > "Mars" was held highest among the Goths, and was reputed to have
> > been born
> > > among them, so that they were actually bestowing worship upon
their
> > > ancestor.  However, there is no proof Jordanes was talking about
> > Gaut.
> > >
> > > What I am trying to do is find Gaut's place in the pantheon(s)
of
> > > Germanic/Norse mythology.  While Norse sources identify Gaut as
> > Odin, some
> > > scholars feel that when Odin usurped Tyr's position at the head
of
> > the
> > > AEsir, "Gaut" was one of the bynames Odin absorbed.
> > >
> > > That the Goths, coming from Scandinavia as a Vanic cult had
Gaut
as
> > their
> > > patron god might suggest a connection between Gaut and the
Vanir.
> > This
> > > would seem more likely if, as you say, Gaut is assocated with
> > fertility, and
> > > can be assocated with the Mannus myth.
> > >
> > > Or perhaps Gaut is a separate god altogether, as he seems to
bear a
> > > combination of qualities held by no other god.  Suggestions and
> > comments are
> > > welcome.
> > >
> > > The Gothic warriors carried for instance
> > > >on their weapons signs of the moon, a typical fertility
> > > >sign. Gaut undoubtedly also took on the form of a
> > > >god who promoted harvest. If the Goths were worshiped
> > > >a god whose name meant 'man', 'fertilizer' and 'pourer out'
> > > >(as in poring out semen) it is not impossible to seem him
> > > >also as a fertility god, but not only that.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, that does indeed make sense.
> > >
> > > Albareiks
> >
> >
> >
> > You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a
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> > Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html
> >
> >
>
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