[gothic-l] Re: The Scandinavian Origin of the Goths and Other Germanic Peoples

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

I see were the misunderstanding is. Firstly, nationbuilding is
certainly not a question during that time, that is why I put nation
in
hyphen. Secondly, some of the tribes you mention will certainly have
started their migration southwards from Scandinavia (probably not the
Langobards at least see Bardengau, Bardenga, Bardowiek south of
Hamburg), this does not mean that the Germanic culture has its origin
in Scandinavia, but it is more likely that proto-Germans moved to
Scandinavia (before Gothic and other tribal identities were formed).
As the concept of the tribe is not static, but dynamic and often
amorphous it is best to place the origin of these tribes to the
places
were they were first attested in historical documents, beyond this
lies speculation (and unfortunately all too often nationalistic
fervour). (Like the Goths, the Vandals are assumed to be a group of
Germanic and Celtic tribes) But agree, we are leaving the confines of
this page.

Dirk


--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, bertil <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Maybe we are relating to different
> things here. In my opinion it was never
> during the Iron Age the question of
> "nation building", but of ethnicity and
> peoples.
>
> There are a number of indications
> that many of the Germanic peoples
> originated in Scandinavia, although
> it cannot be proven with certainty:
>
> The Goths: Vaestergoetland, Oester-
> goetland, Gotland.
>
> The Gepids: See above.
>
> The Eruli: Denmark
>
> The Langobardi: Scania, southern Sweden
>
> The Burgundi: the island of Bornholm
> (formerly named Burgundarholm)
>
> The Rugi: Rogaland (Norway)
>
> The Cimbri: Himmerland (Denmark)
>
> The Vandali: Vendsyssel (Jutland, Denmark)
>
> During the migration southwards these
> peoples were influenced and through
> intermarriage not only with other Germanic
> peoples but with peoples of the steppes in
> the east changed, both culturally,
> ethnically and linguistically. So when
> reaching southern Europe they were of course
> not the same as when they were leaving the
> original home. Their ranks had probably
> also grown with the addition of others living on
> the continent. But there was of course an
> interchange with Scandinavia. New migrators
> being added and others returning to Scandinavia.
>
> Concerning interaction of the peoples of
> Scandinavia with the Celts this of course
> took place in the form of trade and cultural
> exchange.
>
> I am glad we agree on the Scandinavian origin
> of the Goths. If you want to discuss the problem
> of the Scandinavian origin of the other peoples
> we could perhaps do that privately, if you
> are interested, as this is a Gothic list.
>
> Gothically
>
> Bertil Haggman
>
> > In Scandinavia there was simply not
> > the cultural interaction with a 'more
> > advanced' group such as the Celts,
> > which theory deems necessary for the
> > process of identity, culture and 'nation'
> > formation.


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