[gothic-l] Re: What happened with the Vandalic Kingdom?

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Bertil Häggman <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Dirk,
> 
> Carthage no doubt was the main center of the Vandal fleet.
> The arsenals and the shipbuilding material in Carthage was
> taken over in 439 AD. No doubt the Vandalic controlled
> the western Mediterranean. 


Bertil,

there is no disagreement here.


The estimate would be a force,
> initially, of 200 ships at the time of King Geiseric. The number
> of ships after his death declined to around 120. 



Can you give any sources or other basis for this estimate. I do not 
doubt the estimate, but would just like to know how you arrived at 
these numbers.





> 
> The Vandalic naval ships differed from those of the Romans.
> No rowing but light and fast sailing ships generally for a
> crew of 40. 


Again, which sources are describing Vandalic ships? Classical sources 
state that the Vandals in Southern Spain forced or payed **local** 
shipwrights to build them ships to set over to Africa. This, was in 
violation of a decree by Honorius forbidding local shipwrights to 
teach the barbarians how to build ships (source was given earlier on 
this list). At least this would suggest that the Vandal fleet 
consisted of local mediterranean ship types probably also including 
Roman galleys.






Wood for shipbuilding came from the island of
> Corsica, then under Vandal control. In 460 AD the Vandal
> fleet defeated for instance a Byzantian fleet much due to the use 
> of Greek fire.
> 
> During the Vandal rule in North Africa much was kept
> up. I have already mentioned a number of cases and don't want to
> repeat them here.
> 
> Maybe you would like to quote the "Michigan reports".
> If it is like you claim, they differ from a number of other
> reports. 


What are these "other reports", please provide the reference!!!!!!

 In the meantime, the following authors will give you a good picture 
of the general decline and neglect during the Vandal period and the 
subsequent rebuilding and revival after the Byzantine re-conquest.


Claude Lepelley, "The survival and fall of the classical city in Late 
Roman Africa," in The City in Late Antiquity, ed. John Rich 
(Routledge, 1992),
  68.

J. H. Humphrey, "Vandal and Byzantine Carthage: Some New 
Archaeological Evidence," in New Light, 97.


This discussion is probably better suited for the Germanic list, so I 
shall cross post this message.

cheers
Dirk





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