[gothic-l] Re: Goths, Bavarians and Heruls

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
> Hi Dirk,
> You wrote:
> 
> >What do you estimate how many Heruls moved to Scandinavia? Members 
of 
> >the royal familiy with a couple of hundred retainers? Or a people 
of 
> >several thousands or even tens of thousands? My view is that the 
> >Heruls in Pannonia consisted in fact only of a warrior elite, 
without 
> >any large ethnical Herulic people. Thus, 'their people' would have 
> >been mainly local Danube Suevi, romanised Celts etc, who are known 
to 
> >have formed a large part of the population in these areas.
> 
> I believe it was somewhat different. (but of course they also did 
use locals)
> The young people in Norway often left home and travelled South.
> Maybe to do mercenary service. They also learned about peoples and
> trade routes that way. And they gained honour when they participated 
in
> battles. Thus they could come home later with so to speak a 
"university
> diploma" comparing with today, when young people are still sent 
abroad,
> because that is considered valuable asset for the young.
> Norway has a continual tradition of young men going on long 
journeys.
> Just think that the Norwegian merchant fleet used to be the worlds
> third. Only after USA and Britain. But pro capita it was the worlds
> largest. It was alays the ocean, the ocean. Since time immemorial.
> 
> The Heruls were known for their "velocitas" and their "light 
armament"
> That is typical of a people coming from a mountainous country.
> They never lived right by the sea's shore. Old houses are always 
found
> somewhat uphill from the place where they had their boats.
> And the boats was the "automobile" of those days.
> It was still that way in W. Norway around 1950 or 60:
> Far more people had a boat than a car. And they used the boat
> for everything: fishing, shopping, going to church etc..
> So they had very strong arms (all the rowing)
> Also running home for the supper was maybe 10 minutes uphill.
> So they had very stong legs. Those were the good soldiers.
> 
> Just go to Switzerland or Austria, and you still find young
> people in fantastic physical shape. It is the mountains
> that make them so fit. (just like the Columbian cyclists
> or the Ethiopian runners)



Hi Keth,

I am not exactly sure what you are arguing. The Danube/Panonnia Heruls 
were no mountain people and they did not live by the sea. 
Nevertheless, they may have been in good physical shape, although bone 
analysis ususally showed that people at these time died at around 40 
years and women a little earlier. They usually suffered mal-nutrition 
and/or severe/growth-impairing deceases at some stages in their lives. 
 But how does that relate to a possible migration to Scandinavia?  




 
> >> > Roduulf King of the Heruls, son-in-arms of Theoderic
> Yes, this is the man who was king of several peoples in W.Norway.
> See the Getica (in the beginning)


No this is Roduulf, last king of the Heruls at the Danube. There was 
also a Thuringian king with that name. It seems to have been a popular 
name at the time. 


    
> >> > son:
> >> > Fara, Herulic Prince, and Bavarian duke, died 535AD
> In Old Norse there is the corresponding name "Farþegn".
> It means something like "SeaServant", hence has a meaning that 
> indicates a marine environment.
> 


Fara, is a Germanic term attested for the Langobards and denoting a 
warrior group, somthing like a Hansa as far as I know. It is probably 
related to German 'Fahren', I suppose.



 
> I have also been reading Eugippius, and there also found
> many names on F. "Ferderuch" for example.
> Also: "Feletheus", "Onoulf", "Flaccitheus", "Feva", "Giso".
> Any ideas what they might nmean? Analogies etc?


Some of the names like Feletheus, Feva etc. are those of Rugian kings 
near Passau. I don't know what their names mean. One Rugian 
king/prince -I think- was also called Fridrich, a name that is still 
very much in use today.


best regards
Dirk 


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