Troels' argument [gothic-l] The Letter H

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Troels,
In connection with the question about the H in Herul, you wrote:

>For a much later writer like Paulus the Heruls were probably a 
>historical people described in old books - and therefore his spelling 
>is useless.

It is this argument of yours that I should like to take up.
I have quoted what you wrote concerning this, in full above.

The essence of your arument then is, that since Paulus' "Historia Langobardorum"
was written in the 8th century, it is too far removed in time, to tell us
anything about the pronounciation of Germanic names by people who spoke
a Germanic language in the 5th and 6th centuries. 

Since Paulus is thus at least two centuries removed from the events,
this argument of yours has a certain validity. I have already argued
against it, basing my argument upon Paulus growing up in a Germanic
milieu and writing his book where the topic was the history of his
own Germanic people, the Langobards. Hence I argued for the validity
of Paulus' book relative to the matter under discussion, basing my
argument on an appeal to the oral continuity of Langobardic tradition
in Italy, where the native language was Langobardic/Germanic/Gothic
for some centuries. Albeit Paulus' book was written in Latin, I
thought this latter fact to be of lesser importance in the matter.

Let us now assume, temporarily at least, that I accept your argument
which can be summarized as: "Paulus wrote two centuries too late."

Then IF this is accepted as a valid argument, THEN it would seem
that Latin books and records that were NOT written several centuries
too late, might be much more acceptable as valid arguments for
my proposal.

Hence if I found a Latin text from ca. AD 500, i.e. a contemporary
Latin text,  that describes some of the same events and peoples as 
were under discussion, may I then asume that you are willing to
grant it a greater weight in the discussion?

In fact, if you are NOT willing to grant such a contemporary Latin 
book greater weight in the matter, then I would say that your 
objection cannot have been only the two centuries that had passed,
but rather the fact that it was written in the wrong language:
Latin instead of a suitable Germanic langauge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
okay. Then I think I have done my best to formulate things as logically
as I can.

The book I have now taken down from the shelves is called "Vita Severini"
and was written by a man called Eugippius, who was born around 460 A.D.
and whose "Life of Severinus" was finished in 511, i.e. only 3 years
after the defeat of king Rodulf and his Heruls by the Lanngobards.

The book is not only contemporary, but the events it depicts also
take place in exactly the right area, viz. the Donau border area
where the Rugii had settled to the North of the river, and Noricum
Ripense situated to the South of the river.

Would you concede then, that what this book can tell us, may be
of some relevance to the matter under discussion? And if not, will
you or any one else on the list, be able to present a good argument
against its pertinence in the matter?

På forhånd takk!
med vennlig hilsen
Keth



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/