[gothic-l] Re: The Eruli after Defeat by Lombards

[Troels Brandt]

Bertil-

We do not know for sure, if ErilaR means Herul or just jarl/earl. If
it was so, they could be vagrant Pannonian Heruls or Western Heruls
without connection to the group Procopius mentioned. They might also
have visited Norway.

Procopius did not know much about geography in Northern Europe, and
even if I am right about the Uppsala-area, I have no idea which way
they followed - and I don't think this is so important. Tore has once
proposed they sailed from Scania/Blekinge/Seeland to Lake Maelar,
which might be a possibility just like the possibilities mentioned
below.

The group I suspect arriving via the Oder based on archaeology and
Jordanes, arrived before the defeat in Pannonia - maybe 25-60 years
before. I did not say they settled at Oeland, if that is what you
mean - I regard this group or these groups as a destabilising element
in Southern Scandinavia, but theoretically they could have been
peaceful tradesmen.

I have once guessed on a connection between Warne and the Varnies,
but I have no real knowledge about that question.

Troels


--- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Troels,
>
> Thanks for your answer. Was there, in your opinion,
> a movement other than the one Procopius describes
> as via the Varni (could it have anything with the river
> Warne to do, Warnemuende?)? After these, so P.,
> the Eruli passed by the nations of the Dani. Then arriving
> at the ocean they took to the sea and put in at Thule.
>
> Did a group of Eruli split from the main group to follow
> the River Oder, cross the Baltic Sea and settle
> in Scania and Blekinge? At this time Scania would,
> so I see it, probably already have been settled while
> in Blekinge there world probably still be areas to
> settle. The same with Oeland which according to the
> latest reports (the book connected to the ongoing
> exhibition on gold on Oeland at Borgholm) was a
> very wealthy area which also ought to have been
> settled. Remains Blekinge and maybe Vaerend.
>
> Would the other side of the Gautoi be north of Goetaland
> in Uppland then? That would geographically mean
> they crossed from Denmark to Goetaland and would
> have to pass throught the land of Gautoi as well,
> which probably would have led to strife, if the Gautoi
> like the Danoi did not accept a promise by the Eruli
> that they would only pass through.
>
> Then there is of course the question of Eruli in Norway.
> If one connects the Eruli with the ek erilaR inscriptions
> there ought to have been Eruli in Norway as well?
>
> Gothically and Erulically
>
> Bertil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We agree in most of this and the rest we have discussed eagerly
> before under the title Eruli in Blekinge.
>
> I still do not agree, that the Heruls of Procopius settled in
> Blekinge, but since then I have realised, that a group of Heruls
> probably followed the Oder from their kingdom in Moravia in the 5th
> century. This group settled in Scania and Blekinge (a.e. your
> Listerland and Soesdala), and maybe these were the Heruls, who were
> expelled by the Danes - not in the 3rd, but in the 5th century
before
> Jordanes/Cassiodorus wrote their history - when they ravaged their
> surroundings. The archaeological changes at Oeland and Bornholm
> opposite the mouth of the Oder might be connected to these events.
>
> Therefore the Herulian royal family knew exactly what they did,
when
> they left Pannonia for Scandinavia and passed the Danes peacefully
> They probably promised to settle at the other side of the Gautoi as
> a "stabilizing" element against the Svear. In this case they were
> probably a Gothic tribe, and therefore Procopius stressed that they
> settled as neighbours to the Gautoi - which was the only new
> information Procopius had about Thule from Suartues or other
Heruls.
> The rest he knew from earlier writers. Some signs might indicate
that
> some of the Heruls still had a religion like the old Gothic
described
> by Jordanes, and it was therefore natural for them to look for more
> familiar surroundings at the Gautois when they were defeated by the
> Christian Germanic tribes in Southern Europe.
>
> In this way you can get your Eruli in Blekinge, and I can get my
> Heruls - or should I say Eriler - in Uppsala/Vendel.


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