[gothic-l] The Eruli after Defeat by Lombards

[Tore Gannholm]

Bertil,
Which is your source that Gautoi should also have lived in Östergötland and
Småland?
The names Götaland, Östergötland and Västergötland are names which appear
very late in the Middle ages.
As far as I can read from the sources the Gautoi lived in Västergötland
with the forrests of Tiveden as border to the Lake Mälar area.
Tore

>Keth,
>
>The text is "beside (para) the Gautoi" and the Procopii name for
>the goetar was Gautoi. The Gautoi lived also in Oester-
>goetland and for instance also in Smaaland (both on the
>east coast of the southern part of the Scandinavian
>peninsula) which borders on Blekinge.
>
>It is also interesting to note that Procopius and Jordanes
>use different names for Scandinavia: Thule and Scandza
>respectively.
>
>Gothically and Erulically
>
>Bertil
>
>It says (Prokop, Gothic Wars II, 15) that the Heruls who returned
>to Thule settled in the vicinity of the Götar (how does Prokop
>spell it?). Since the Götar lived (live) near where the Götaelf
>flows into the Skagerak, this would then place the returning
>Heruls in what used to be called Ranríki (ranriki), which is the
>coastal area just North of the Mouth of the Götälf (göta river).
>So the Heruls were probably identical to the the Ranii, as described
>by Jordanes in the exact same area (See Getica § 23, where the
>"(ac) ragnaricii" are mentioned as neighbors to the "raumaricii" =
>today's "Romerike, North of Oslo).
>
>btw "Vita Severinii" writes Heruls with H. And it is a contemporary
>work from Noricum. which is exactly the area where there were many
>Heruls. Completed in 511, 3 years after Rodulf's defeat.
>
>Best regards
>Keth
>
>
>
>
>>Troels,
>>
>>Thanks for your answer. Was there, in your opinion,
>>a movement other than the one Procopius describes
>>as via the Varni (could it have anything with the river
>>Warne to do, Warnemuende?)? After these, so P.,
>>the Eruli passed by the nations of the Dani. Then arriving
>>at the ocean they took to the sea and put in at Thule.
>>
>>Did a group of Eruli split from the main group to follow
>>the River Oder, cross the Baltic Sea and settle
>>in Scania and Blekinge? At this time Scania would,
>>so I see it, probably already have been settled while
>>in Blekinge there world probably still be areas to
>>settle. The same with Oeland which according to the
>>latest reports (the book connected to the ongoing
>>exhibition on gold on Oeland at Borgholm) was a
>>very wealthy area which also ought to have been
>>settled. Remains Blekinge and maybe Vaerend.
>>
>>Would the other side of the Gautoi be north of Goetaland
>>in Uppland then? That would geographically mean
>>they crossed from Denmark to Goetaland and would
>>have to pass throught the land of Gautoi as well,
>>which probably would have led to strife, if the Gautoi
>>like the Danoi did not accept a promise by the Eruli
>>that they would only pass through.
>>
>>Then there is of course the question of Eruli in Norway.
>>If one connects the Eruli with the ek erilaR inscriptions
>>there ought to have been Eruli in Norway as well?
>>
>>Gothically and Erulically
>>
>>Bertil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>We agree in most of this and the rest we have discussed eagerly
>>before under the title Eruli in Blekinge.
>>
>>I still do not agree, that the Heruls of Procopius settled in
>>Blekinge, but since then I have realised, that a group of Heruls
>>probably followed the Oder from their kingdom in Moravia in the 5th
>>century. This group settled in Scania and Blekinge (a.e. your
>>Listerland and Soesdala), and maybe these were the Heruls, who were
>>expelled by the Danes - not in the 3rd, but in the 5th century before
>>Jordanes/Cassiodorus wrote their history - when they ravaged their
>>surroundings. The archaeological changes at Oeland and Bornholm
>>opposite the mouth of the Oder might be connected to these events.
>>
>>Therefore the Herulian royal family knew exactly what they did, when
>>they left Pannonia for Scandinavia and passed the Danes peacefully
>>They probably promised to settle at the other side of the Gautoi as
>>a "stabilizing" element against the Svear. In this case they were
>>probably a Gothic tribe, and therefore Procopius stressed that they
>>settled as neighbours to the Gautoi - which was the only new
>>information Procopius had about Thule from Suartues or other Heruls.
>>The rest he knew from earlier writers. Some signs might indicate that
>>some of the Heruls still had a religion like the old Gothic described
>>by Jordanes, and it was therefore natural for them to look for more
>>familiar surroundings at the Gautois when they were defeated by the
>>Christian Germanic tribes in Southern Europe.
>>
>>In this way you can get your Eruli in Blekinge, and I can get my
>>Heruls - or should I say Eriler - in Uppsala/Vendel.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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