[gothic-l] Re: Lister Runestones, Ostrogothic Verse and Nordic Naming Tradition

[malmqvist52]

Hi Bertil,
--- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Tore,
> 
> The Tjurkoe brakteat is from around 450 AD. The texts
> on Stentoften and other runestones from Lister in
> Blekinge Province are as well in ancient Nordic.
> 
> The runestones are not as late as 600 - 650 AD. But they
> are more probably from "urnordiska" rather than
> "fornnordiska" and the dating should be moved back
> to the beginning of the 6th century AD. The five
> Blekinge inscriptions are likely from the first decades
> after the arrival of the Eruli and the 600-750 AD dating
> is the possible latest period they were inscribed. The
> timeframe would be 500 to 650 AD, with 500 the oldest
> and 650 the latest.

>From Your message I sense that You read Ivar Lindqvist, as the 
datings an the translations seem to match with the ones You give.

Ok, fine with me, but to say that the mystery of the stones is 
settled with Ivar Lindqvists solution, I believe is to oversimplify 
the question. You know as well as I that there has come numerous 
attempts to interpret the stones after Lindquist's. To mention one I 
think I remember Lillemor Santesson being mentioned by Per Larson on 
Örjans page interprets the first lines: With nine rams, with nine 
stallions...

However, I agree with You that it seems to be quite hard to date the 
inscriptions. I've seen figures ranging from 500 to 8th century In 
this forum and on other places (e.g on the information table in situ 
in Björketorp it says around 700, (which I don't regard as more 
reliable than any other dating only by this fact)).

So a question to Dirk, if I may make it in this message is: How can 
You be so sure that it's from the 7th or 8th cenuries? 

Personally I'm quite unsure and I think it for that matter could be 
older than from 500 or from the 6th or 7th centuries. It would appear 
to depend on ones bias for interpreting the whole situation (all of 
the Blekine stones, their language and the people hewing them) Ivar 
Lindquist clearly has set his mind on a Herulic interpretation then 
it's 'Herulic'  language , returning heruls, and the dating is around 
512. 
Since all these theories seem to depend on Prokopius, and as I've 
read in the discussions here and on Germanic-l and on European 
Archaeology that the reliability of Procopius is in doubt, I am stil 
not convinced by the theories about the returning Heruls by Lindquist 
and some of You people on these lists. I am (just starting)  
considering it but I'm far from certain that it is the truth    


> 
> The close relation between the Stentoften verse and the
> Gothic bible verses (the sense lines)

Where is this shown Bertil? Somehow I doubt this.




 point in my opinion
> to a relation between both that runestone and the
> Gummarp and Istaby runestones and the recently settled
> Erulic immigrants ('newcomers'). It is most likely that
> the Eruli arrived 512-513 AD. They could have continued
> northward via Vaerend in Smaaland Province. The similarity 
> between the inscription on the Lister Peninsula and the 
> manuscripts from the height of the Ostrogothic period is striking.
Really? Can You show me this, please?
 
I guess This will be enough questions for today. It seems as if I was 
on a question mood this evening.

Best regards 
Anders



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