[gothic-l] Re: The Eruli and Runes

[troels_brandt]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> I suppose Denmark, i.e. Jutland including Schleswig-Holstein is not
a
> bad guess for the origin of the runes. -There are really really two
> concentration of runic inscriptions in Germany.

I know, but as far as I remember the map they were few in Weser/Lower
Elb region.

 The south German
> runes, made mainly by Alamanni and dating from 500AD onwards and
> North German Runes, which according to the Kiel University are the
> oldest runes of all inscriptions, including the Weser runes from
> around 180AD and the Meldorf (near Hamburg) runes from around
25AD.
> Runic inscriptions from Germany include also a number of East
> Germanic inscriptions like the Dahmdorf blade.
>
> In general, the frequency distribution that I provided was not
meant
> to show a relation of finds between Scandinavia and Germany, but
> between Scandinavia with Germany on the one side and the East
> Germanic areas on the other. Such a comparison is meaning full
> because the difference is so large indicating that the Goths were
> likely not the inventors of the runes.
>
> Overall, the number of runic inscriptions is so small that a
> comparison of frequency distributions among countries like Germany,
> Denmark, Sweden and Norway is practically meaningless. The find
> frequency can be easily distorted by find circumstances,
preservation
> conditions, local customs etc. Thus, the custom of inscribing big
> stones has developed almost exclusively in Scandinavia, while
further
> south latin letters were used. As such inscriptions are more likely
> to survive, it greatly increases the number of occurances. If
people
> in other areas inscribed only perishable objects, this would
greatly
> distort the distribution. E.g. the survival of the rune-bones of
the
> Weser is only due to unusual environmental conditions. There were
> probably thousands of these bones originally.


I think we agree, if your argument does not lead you to a region of
origin where we have very few inscriptions or no finds at all - or to
regions too close to the Roman civilisation.


>
> There is a fairly new article by Walter Pohl "Die gentes im Vorfeld
> von Ostgoten und Franken" (or similar, I can get the exact quote,
> were he devotes a section to the Heruls with an interesting
> interpretation. His upcoming book 'Die Voelkerwanderung: Eroberung
> und Integration', might also contain this interpretation of the
> Herulic kingdom at the Danube. He basically sees the Heruls at the
> Danube as a very small warrior elite that perpetuated the lifestyle
> adopted from their former Hunnic masters. Thus, they dominated and
> lived off a majoritiy population of 'Roman' provincials and Suevian
> Germanics.


This is partly the claim made by Alvar Ellegaard in 1987. Ludwig
Schmidt used the charming expression: "Die Heruler waren ein echtes
Herrenvolk"!!. I believe the truth lies between Ellegaard and a
traditional migration, as their strength in the 6th century probably
was due to their superiority as warriors rather than their number. As
they probably sometimes were a minority in their own society and we
do not know their characteristics, they are difficult to identify by
archaeology.

Troels



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