[gothic-l] Re: Ostrogoths in Italy, Britain or China (or on the moon?)

[trbrandt at POST9.TELE.DK]

Hello Dirk

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., trbrandt at p... wrote:
> > Hej Tore
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> > > The common opinion is that the Heruls probably lived somewhere
in
> > southern
> > > Denmark - Northern Germany
> >
> > Which source does this common opinion use? Do you talk about
Western
> > Heruls?
> >
> > > (I can't find that Procopius claims that they
> > > originated from Thule)
> >
> > He did not - and he did not claim Southern Denmark or Northern
> > Germany. Maybe Jordanes claimed Scania or Sealand.
>
>
> Hello Troels,
>
>
> I just asked Tore the same question about the southern
Denmark/North
> Germany origin of the Heruls. Does Jordanes ever mention names like
> 'Scania' or 'Sealand' in his works?

If he did it was not necessary for me to write "maybe". Jordanes
wrote about the island Scanza: "However, the Dani, who trace their
origin to the same stock (Suetidi), drove from their homes the
Heruli". If he wrote about ancient times and not about his own time
it is most likely to look for them where the Danes had settled.
According to Ottar in the 9th century the Danes lived in Southern
Sweden and the Scandinavian Islands (Scania and Sealand were the
largest regions there). Therefore I wrote: "Maybe Jordanes claimed
Scania or Sealand."

In Denmark you could earlier read in every history book that the
Heruls originated from Sealand, but if the experts tell me, that the
Heruls were first separated as a Gothic tribe at the Black Sea and
were expelled by the Danes 512-546 AD, I will accept that.

I wrote to Tore about this new detail, because it would be a logical
solution if the Heruls originally lived in Northern Frisia and around
200AD separated in a group joining the Goths and a group staying as
the Western Heruls. Unfortunately the logic you also mentioned in
your letter to Andreas is not sufficient. Therefore I asked Tore for
his sources.

> I thought he only spoke of this uninhabitable place with cave-
dwelling
> carnivors, laking honey and sunlight called 'Scandza'.

I think Jordanes wrote a little more. Please read:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html

>
> I thought most authors readily translate this Scandza into
Scandinavia
> regardless of the fact that authors like Fredegar (640sAD) places
his
> 'Scatanavia' between the Danube and the Ocean' in continental
Europe
> and the codis gothanis places its Scatanav (perhaps the later
> Skadanaw) at the Elbe river.

As Jordanes clearly wrote about the island Scanza and its many tribes
(some of them wellknown) it is a little difficult to place an island
as suggested by your sources above.

> But were does Jordanes speak of 'Sealand'
> or Scania?

Again. He didn't.

> cheers
> Dirk

cheers
Troels


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