[gothic-l] Gothic

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Esteemed Bertil,
I believe I could follow you half-way on this.
you wrote:
>Esteemed listmembers,

>It seems the contributor underneath wants to claim that research
>on the Goths was only carried out in the 1940s. But
>view the selected bibliography underneath. Research has been going on
>also before WWII:

The way I understood the post, was that Winfred P. Lehmann, who
used to work at the University of Texas at Austin (correct?)
was born anno 1915. Therefore, in 1940, when he had just finished
his university edication (in Germany I think), he wrote some
papers about the Goths. Later, when he came to the United States
and had become emiritus cum laude, he wrote a chapter on the
Gothic language, where some of his 1940 findings became included.
Prof. Lehmann is author of "A Gothic Etymological Dictionary".
(of which I have a copy)

>Ambrosiani, S _Odinskultens haerkomst_, Stockholm
>Arbman, H, _Zur Kenntnis der aeltesten Eisenzeit in Schweden_,
>Copenhagen 1934.
>Professor Sophus Bugge's works in Norway at the beginning
>of last century.
>Detlefsen, D., _Die Entdeckung des germanischen Nordens im
>Altertum, Berlin 1904-09.
>Eusebius/Loeb, _Ecclesiastical History_,1926
>Feist, _Etymologisches Woerterbuch der gotischen Sprache_, Halle 1923
>von Friesen O., ´"Har det nordiska kungadoemet sakralt ursprung",
>essay 1932, Uppsala
>Hald, _Danske Stednavn_, Copenhagen, from 1922
>Hoefler, O, _Kultische Geheimbuende der Germanen, Frankfurt/M, 1934
>Isidor von Sevilla/Th Mommsen, 1894
>Läffler, I F, "Om de östskandinaviska folknamnen hos Jordanes", Essay, 1894,
>Stockholm
>Hoops First Edition, 1915
>Nerman, B., _Die Herkunft und die fruehesten Auswanderung der Germanen_,
>Stockholm 1924
>Schmidt, L., _Geschichte der germanischen Fruehzeit_, 1925/34
>Svensson, J V, "De nordiska folkstammarna hos Jordanes_, Essay 1917,'
>Uppsala
>Vasiliev, _The Goths in Crimea_, Cambridge, MA, 1936
>Wessén, E., _De nordiska folkstammarna hos Beowulf_, Stockholm, 1927
>Wrede, F., _Ueber die sprache der Ostgoten in Italien_, Strassburg 1891
>
>Not only is the claim that everything was done in the 1940s. Now also
>Professor Omeljan Pritsak (1989) is outdated.
>
>The conclusion seems to be: All research on the Goths was made in the 1940s.
>It is outdated but also all material until 1989 is outdated (unless only
>Pritsak
>is outdated, but other material is not ). Everything written from 1900s to the
>1930s cannot in my view be discarded. Also 19th century literature has a
>value today.

Interesting question was raised on the research concerning the Goths.
When did it begin?

Or let us phrase it differently: When did one begin to take an
interest in Jordanes Getica? Was, for example, Adam of Bremen
familiar with it? Or was Saxo grammaticus? Or was Snorri Sturluson?

Let us begin with the earliest (I know of), which is Paulus
Diaconus.  So the question has been raised: "Did Paulus know
about the Getica"? I consulted the index of the "Historia"
but found only a reference to Cassiodorus, also known "Senator".
The two books do however overlap to some extent, wherefore Paulus
mentions Theudericus rex Gotorum,  Rodolfos rex Herolorum *)
as well as Odoacar rex Turcillingorum. So we see then, that
Paulus Diaconus, even if seeming to be unacquainted
with Jordanes, he does mention the Gothi (sic) and can,
thus, be put on the "read" list for things Gothic.

*)Incidentally, here is also resolved a question I asked
more than a year ago, and that was about the spelling of
the name "Herul" with Latin authors. As you see, Bertil,
it is with an initial "H", and I guess that means that
your way of spelling it as *Eruli, is out.



>Personally I think listmembers are quite qualified to choose literature on
>the Goths from the 1900s, 1910s, 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s,
>1970s, 1980s, 1990s and after.

Indeed, and now also from AD 781 !


>Gothically

>Bertil

Gautically

Keth



P.S. I see that Paulus writes "Theudepertus" (example)
which we now would simply identify as "Theudbert" or
þjóðbjartr in Old Norse. To me this shows that in the
Germanic languages that were spoken in Italy at that
time, the "p" and the "b" were were interchangable when
Germanic names or words were written down in Latin
manuscripts. Jordanes writes Thiudebertus (§ 296)
for the son of Lodoin.


>I am not arguing against the book 'The Germanic languages' as such,
>and I am not saying that it is outdated in its linguistic analysis.
>But Lehmann has in his introductory remarks about Germanic migrations
>(which is not his field of speciallity) obviously relied on old
>literature and indeed on one of his own 1940s articles. So his remarks
>that Vandals, Goths etc. came from the Danish isles and Sweden is not
>to be seen as the result of new research as the inclusion of this
>statement into a 1990s book might suggest, but simply the
>reprodutciton of 1940s (outdated) knowledge, which unfortunately
>happens quite frequently, but could have been prevented had he
>used modern research findings.




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